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A Study in Emerald» Forums » Rules

Subject: Cthulu in a city with hidden royalty rss

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Jim Marshall
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Just soloing the game to get the rules, and Cthulu has just obliterated Paris in which there is a hidden old one - does the old one survive (and thus the hiding player retain the 4 VPs for hiding the spanner in the toolchest), or does the old one die along with the hiding player's VPs?
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Kai Teo
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How does he obliterate Paris ?!?
 
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Jim Marshall
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duckizz wrote:
How does he obliterate Paris ?!?


When you take the Cthulu card, 'you select one city to destroy' (page 14 of the rules, which then goes on to outline the damage).
 
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Kai Teo
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Ah. Silly me I haven't encountered the card /ignoreme
 
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Mikko Saari
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I would assume the royalty has been hidden far enough from Paris to survive.
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Andi Hub
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In my view the rules of Cthulhu are pretty clear (but easy to overlook):
Quote:
Any Control disc in the city is returned to the owning player, who then reduces his victory point total.

Since you also place a control disk, when hiding a royalty, you should also lose the points, if Cthulhu destroys the City.
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Mikko Saari
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But is that control disk in the city? I'm not sure about that.
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Andi Hub
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msaari wrote:
But is that control disk in the city? I'm not sure about that.

I would say so. There are only control disks for the city itself and for assassination/hiding of the royalty. The text of Cthulhu would probably point out, that only the control disk for control of the city is to be removed, if that was true.

From a thematic stand point, you surely may understand the way you do: On one hand, the royalty is hidden and far away from Cthulhu's destruction. On the other hand, an assassinated royalty does not come back to life, if the city is destroyed. But still, this is not the way I interpret the rules text.
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George Ramos
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msaari wrote:
But is that control disk in the city? I'm not sure about that.


I also don't think the control disk for the Royalty is in the city. The Cthulhu card specifically tells you what to do with the game cards on the city, and what to do with the city card itself, but it makes no mention of the royalty.

If we ignore the rules and argue thematically, I interpret "Hide Royalty" as meaning the royal is nowhere to be found. They didn't just move him across the street, but he's totally gone and effectively not on the board anymore. The royal represents a character, not a location-specific appendage to the city.
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Lawcomic
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If cards are in the city, and royals to be hidden or assassinated are in the city, then I see no reasonable argument (from a rules perspective) that control disks for assassinated or hidden royals are not also in the city.

I refuse to argue what is thematically correct as that is a wormhole of despair. Games are games. Not simulations.
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J M
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Look at the other possibility- an assassinated royal. If Cthulhu destroys the city, the royal is somehow no longer assassinated because you consider that control disc inside the city, and have removed it.

I don't consider royals to be *inside* the cities for this reason.
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John Rodriguez
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I'm surprised Martin hasn't commented here. I can see either rules option working.

I'm not sure "cards are in the city" is entirely accurate. Part of the problem is that "City" seems to be rather loosely defined. It seems to sometimes means the combined card/city area, and it sometimes just means the city box area.

The exact same problem follows Devil's Island.

I'm more likely to say that it only affects the control marker on the city box BUT I admit I very well could be wrong. Without MW telling us otherwise we will never know.
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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I think the assassination case makes the point quite clearly. And note that the rule uses disc in the singular. To be clear, Cthulhu can't reinstate an assassinated royal, so doesn't remove all discs, so no reason to assume it removes a hidden royal disc. And to do so would require a plural too.
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Gerhardt Schroeder
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Dearlove wrote:
I think the assassination case makes the point quite clearly. And note that the rule uses disc in the singular. To be clear, Cthulhu can't reinstate an assassinated royal, so doesn't remove all discs, so no reason to assume it removes a hidden royal disc. And to do so would require a plural too.


Yup. The rules aren't totally clear on this, but killing a hidden royal would require also un-killing an assassinated royal, which would be an absurd result.
 
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