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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » General

Subject: Are maneuvers weighted in ship point cost? rss

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Tim Woehlke
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Just a quick question, do you think maneuvers are weighed by Fantasy Flight when they select the ship cost? On the one hand, I wouldn't be shocked if the HWK or Y wing lost a few points because of their awful dial but it doesn't seem like much if they are. More importantly, some maneuvers are worth drastically more than others. A "Straight 3" is worth almost nothing in this game whereas, IMHO, a "Turn 1" has nearly the same value as an ability in your action bar.

Anyway, do you think FF weighs the maneuvers themselves with a point value? And what maneuvers do you think have the most value? If you had to pick 5 Maneuvers, which are must haves?
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Vayda
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I absolutely can't imagine that the dial does not factor heavily in design and cost.

FFG has done a great job of making the dials feel like the ship would feel. That fact of holding true to the source material influencing the final product is great.


As for must haves moves- it depends on the ship and the list.

In the game the full range of 1 maneuvers are great to avoid (or cause) collisions.

Myself being an imp pilot- I enjoy the higher speed 3,4 ranges.
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Davyd A
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Didn't they say outright that the Lambda's high stats and low cost were balanced by having the worst dial in the game? I'm pretty sure they did; and that being the so, how could they not be altering points values based on dials?
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Trent Boardgamer
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Each wave, when the ships are previewed and announced (including points value) the only missing info is normally the movement dial. Given we get pages of people justifying points values on the yet to be seen movement dials, I'm going to throw it out there and say, it is definitely factored in.

The game would be broken if the movement dials didn't factor in a ships cost.

Out of curiosity, why is it you think they may not have been?
 
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Allen T
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Your Omicron shuttle survives the first pass and let me know if you think it is still worth 21 points.

I've been surprised a number of times with how manuverable the Y wing is- I haven't found the dial to be overly limiting.
 
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Tim Woehlke
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Bearhug78 wrote:
Out of curiosity, why is it you think they may not have been?


I do. I just wonder if they FF assigns more points to certain maneuvers. For instance, is a "Straight 3" worth 1 point while a "Turn 1" is worth 2?
 
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Lando
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monkeykins wrote:
I've been surprised a number of times with how manuverable the Y wing is- I haven't found the dial to be overly limiting.


That is because it is not. The common knowledge of "slow and sluggish" is not true on so many levels it isn't funny. I love that ship and all of its little quirks that go along with it.
 
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Robert M.
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nimdabew wrote:
monkeykins wrote:
I've been surprised a number of times with how manuverable the Y wing is- I haven't found the dial to be overly limiting.


That is because it is not. The common knowledge of "slow and sluggish" is not true on so many levels it isn't funny. I love that ship and all of its little quirks that go along with it.

Well, it was a reasonable statement up through Wave 2, when it legitimately had the weakest dial of any ship. Wave 3 makes a big difference, though--its dial is better than the HWK and arguably better than the B-wing, and far better than the Lambda.
 
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Tim Woehlke
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Vorpal Sword wrote:
nimdabew wrote:
monkeykins wrote:
I've been surprised a number of times with how manuverable the Y wing is- I haven't found the dial to be overly limiting.


That is because it is not. The common knowledge of "slow and sluggish" is not true on so many levels it isn't funny. I love that ship and all of its little quirks that go along with it.

Well, it was a reasonable statement up through Wave 2, when it legitimately had the weakest dial of any ship. Wave 3 makes a big difference, though--its dial is better than the HWK and arguably better than the B-wing, and far better than the Lambda.


And, of course, if you're flying four of them and ionizing everything on the mat you are suddenly Usain Bolt to everyone else's Kevin James.
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John DiMaggio
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Snarly_Yow wrote:

Anyway, do you think FF weighs the maneuvers themselves with a point value? And what maneuvers do you think have the most value? If you had to pick 5 Maneuvers, which are must haves?


Good question. I've thought of this from time-to-time and I do think FFG has point-costed Wave 2 and 3 very well. However, part of me still thinks standard TIEs are just too cost-effective and their maneuver dial is just so good compared to most other ships. I have faith that they were tested vigorously but part of me thinks Wave 1 just didn't incorporate maneuver dials, nor pilot abilities into point-costing as much as wave 2/3.

5 of my favorite maneuvers would have to be:

1. 1-turn: Lets you squeeze into tight spots, dogfight like a beast, and almost stay still with a falcon.

2. 4 Koigran: Turning around is vital to keeping things in your firing arc, and turning 4 vs. 2 or 3 gives you some defensive options if you're lower in the firing order. Also can jump past big ships/blobs of ships.

3. 3 Koigran: Just long enough to skip over a ship, sometimes 2, but short enough that lets you stay in range 1 if you aren't getting shot at, or if you're a higher pilot skill and want to light up a damaged ship before it gets to return fire.

4. 5 straight: I guess I'm a sucker for extremes, but this lets you develop complex early-game formations, and also serves as a nice escape or closing tool in end-game dogfights.

5. 1 straight: Let's you avoid close call collisions, and keeps ships in your firing arc for longer without having to k-turn. Also nice early in the game to avoid committing to a certain angle of attack (i.e. through, above, or below an asteroid cluster) and control where the first confrontation takes place.

My list is very Imperial biased, as I tend to play the bad guy more in my gaming groups . Perhaps a more devote Rebel player feels differently but the extremes on the dials seem to be the more clutch maneuvers as most ships seem to have a variety of 2,3 maneuvers. This makes me believe they're valued more (or at least, IMO, should be).
 
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Joe Reil
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Snarly_Yow wrote:
Bearhug78 wrote:
Out of curiosity, why is it you think they may not have been?


I do. I just wonder if they FF assigns more points to certain maneuvers. For instance, is a "Straight 3" worth 1 point while a "Turn 1" is worth 2?


I'm sure that better maneuvers are worth 'more' than less useful ones, but I really doubt that it's a simple linear formula like that.

Figuring out accurate point costs in games like this can be really complicated. A simple formula can get close but will always have flaws.

More likely it's either a more complicated formula that tries to look at the ship as a whole (a Straight 3 won't always be "worth" the same number of points - it'll vary depending on what other capabilities the ship has) or they use a formula (simple or complex) to get close and then playtesting to tighten it up and tweak it to a more accurate final value.
 
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