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Subject: Dice counts for 2-player game rss

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Alison Mandible
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I finally got around to trying the PnP. I figured that if the number of dice listed was suitable for four-player games, I could get away with half as many of each color for a two-player game.

We found that metal dice ran out very quickly, which affected our strategy. I'm curious if playing with half as many dice actually is appropriate for two players or if you kind of need the full 80+ dice no matter what the player count is.

(We had the Astrologer in our Gather deck, so I think the game as a whole went unusually fast. And I suppose the Astrologer would accelerate things more in a 2p game than a 4p game, because the number of 'extra' dice you can get by burning a die on the Astrologer is higher when you're splitting the Gather deck among fewer people... if I'm thinking about it right?)
 
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Kevin B. Smith
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I have never run out of any color of dice at any player count, but I didn't really pay attention to whether we were coming close. The crafting cards would make a big difference, with more metal items requiring more metal dice.

The 2p game does run longer than 4p, so I would budget for a bit more than half the dice of a 4p game. Off the top of my head...4p*4 = 16, and 2p*5 = 10, so 5/8 as many.
 
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Nick Sibicky

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It is very possible to run out of metal in a two player game with only 20 dice. I would encourage you to see the finite resources as being part of the game in this case and just adapt. As Kevin already pointed out, combining the need to craft 5 items to win plus having a few of those be high-metal items, a metal shortage is likely. It is also likely that in a different deal of craft cards, you will run out of something else other than metal.

In a 4-player game, not everyone is fighting over the same items and the resources tend to naturally diversify a little bit more.

Also, I'm not sure what you consider to be "unusually fast." I've seen games won in as early as 3 turns (though that is VERY rare, and due to many factors) though a typical KF game will last between 5-7 rounds. Remember, the more close/competitive the game is, the longer it will usually last (even sometimes as late as round 8, 9, or 10)!

One other rule that I want to make sure that you are playing correctly; remember, in the 2-player game the Gather phase ends as soon as a Gather card cannot be replaced on the table. This limits the power of the Astrologer and the potential for dice shortages! Many players forget this rule and play it the same way as they would for a 3-4 person game!
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Alison Mandible
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Nicksib wrote:
It is very possible to run out of metal in a two player game with only 20 dice. I would encourage you to see the finite resources as being part of the game in this case and just adapt.


We did! I'm used to working around uncertainty with components in PnPs, and the game was plenty fun with that limit in place-- I just wanted to check whether this was a totally outlandish situation.

Quote:
As Kevin already pointed out, combining the need to craft 5 items to win plus having a few of those be high-metal items, a metal shortage is likely.


I missed the fact that a 2p game is to 5 items rather than 4. Oops!

Quote:
In a 4-player game, not everyone is fighting over the same items and the resources tend to naturally diversify a little bit more.


Ah, interesting.

Quote:
Also, I'm not sure what you consider to be "unusually fast." I've seen games won in as early as 3 turns (though that is VERY rare, and due to many factors) though a typical KF game will last between 5-7 rounds.


I'm not sure why I said "unusually"-- like I said, this was my first game, so I have no idea! I think it felt like the Astrologer let at least one of us (sometimes both of us, as the "copy a card" Gather was also present) go whole hog on acquiring new dice while also crafting in the same round, and that otherwise that pace wouldn't have been possible. But it sounds like I'm wrong.

Quote:
One other rule that I want to make sure that you are playing correctly; remember, in the 2-player game the Gather phase ends as soon as a Gather card cannot be replaced on the table.


This one, we did get right. That said, I don't think it came up very often; most rounds, one of us passed early-ish to get the +1/+1 token and/or save dice for Crafting, and the other generally ran out of dice just as the phase was ending.

Thank you for the elucidation! I'm looking forward to playing again, and very much looking forward to having the full game.
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