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Subject: Miniature Kickstarter? rss

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Joshua Russell
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I posted this over at the PHG forums, but thought I would mention it here also. What if they ran a kickstarter to have minis produced for all the creatures not represented by miniatures? Such as the elite rats, slugs, and so forth? What is everyone's thoughts? I think it would be a great way of funding the molds for them, and then PlaidHat wouldn't need to take the risk of paying for the molds themselves.
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I'd back 2-3 sets in a heartbeat
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Joshua Russell
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Make sure to let PlaidHat know! The more people that let them know the better!
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joshuar56 wrote:
I posted this over at the PHG forums, but thought I would mention it here also. What if they ran a kickstarter to have minis produced for all the creatures not represented by miniatures? Such as the elite rats, slugs, and so forth? What is everyone's thoughts? I think it would be a great way of funding the molds for them, and then PlaidHat wouldn't need to take the risk of paying for the molds themselves.

From the podcasts, I'm pretty sure that Colby won't use Kickstarter for a Plaid Hat Games product.
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Joshua Russell
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Archr wrote:
joshuar56 wrote:
I posted this over at the PHG forums, but thought I would mention it here also. What if they ran a kickstarter to have minis produced for all the creatures not represented by miniatures? Such as the elite rats, slugs, and so forth? What is everyone's thoughts? I think it would be a great way of funding the molds for them, and then PlaidHat wouldn't need to take the risk of paying for the molds themselves.

From the podcasts, I'm pretty sure that Colby won't use Kickstarter for a Plaid Hat Games product.

That would be a shame. Their customers are the ones who suffer. Kickstarter would just prove if there are enough customers to justify manufacturing them. I hope they at least have some plans to release them in mini form at some point. Even if it's over time.
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Joshua Russell
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I got to thinking about it, and I think a kickstarter would also create a lot of exposure for the game itself. Why is Colby so opposed to KS?
 
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Ken Marley
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You can buy a second copy of the minis for $14.99 from PHG.

Not sure why you would need a Kickstarter. Different poses? Might be cool I suppose. I wouldn't pay for it, and I love Mice.
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+1 for more minis for this awesome game!
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That might be my first KS ever. But I'd want them! The game rocks, and more minis are always fun.cool
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joshuar56 wrote:
I got to thinking about it, and I think a kickstarter would also create a lot of exposure for the game itself. Why is Colby so opposed to KS?


From what he's said on the Plaid Hat Podcast, he's not opposed to Kickstarter as a platform. He just doesn't think it's being used correctly by most companies, and thinks it should be used as originally intended and not as a preorder system. He doesn't think established companies should be using it, which is why he's stated he doesn't think Plaid Hat will ever use it. Granted this isn't a direct quote, so I could be wrong, but I think that's the general idea.
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Joshua Russell
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youperguy wrote:
You can buy a second copy of the minis for $14.99 from PHG.

Not sure why you would need a Kickstarter. Different poses? Might be cool I suppose. I wouldn't pay for it, and I love Mice.

I'd like minis that accurately represent the elite rats, captain vurst,vanestra,skitter-clak from the original game, as well as well as the 7 new minion types in the expansion. Heck, they could even do a resin version do Brodie's paw. For me personally, I don't understand why you would do a board game with minis, if you're going to do it so half hearted. Might as well do card board stands.
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joshuar56 wrote:
youperguy wrote:
You can buy a second copy of the minis for $14.99 from PHG.

Not sure why you would need a Kickstarter. Different poses? Might be cool I suppose. I wouldn't pay for it, and I love Mice.

I'd like minis that accurately represent the elite rats, captain vurst,vanestra,skitter-clak from the original game, as well as well as the 7 new minion types in the expansion. Heck, they could even do a resin version do Brodie's paw. For me personally, I don't understand why you would do a board game with minis, if you're going to do it so half hearted. Might as well do card board stands.



Would also like to see miniatures versions of the stuff from the lost chapters
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joshuar56 wrote:
youperguy wrote:
You can buy a second copy of the minis for $14.99 from PHG.

Not sure why you would need a Kickstarter. Different poses? Might be cool I suppose. I wouldn't pay for it, and I love Mice.

I'd like minis that accurately represent the elite rats, captain vurst,vanestra,skitter-clak from the original game, as well as well as the 7 new minion types in the expansion. Heck, they could even do a resin version do Brodie's paw. For me personally, I don't understand why you would do a board game with minis, if you're going to do it so half hearted. Might as well do card board stands.


I felt this way before I actually played the game. However, now I definitely am happy that they didn't produce miniatures to represent characters that don't take up space on the board. Brodie's paw and Meeps and Crumbles from the first Lost Chapter and the Slugs from Heart of Glorm are not meant to be counted as figures, so they can share the space with 1 large figure or 4 smaller figures. It would be irritating to have 3D minis for these tokens. I didn't care much about having elite rat minis, but I would like to have a new set of minis for skulking and mindless rats. I bet that PHG worries that sculpts of these figures would be too horrific for the younger members of the family that may be playing the game. Glorm already has caught some flack among fans for being too scary. And I'm just mentioning this to argue that the appeal for these types of figures is far from universal.

Also, I think that it must be remembered that the game's minis are sculpted by one guy, Chad Hoverter, who has a day job. I think that he has been busy producing figures for this and other games. If Plaid Hat wants to make some unique Boss or special character figures, then I would be down for that, but only if the quality and style matched the amazing figures already produced by Chad. I would not support a Kickstarter, as I hate that venue and Plaid Hat's refusal to patronize KS is one of the reason's why I'm so fond of PHG.

Also, you guys don't seem to understand that Kickstarter is not free for companies to use. It also forces companies to suffer the whiny masses, who feel somehow entitled by their pledges, as if they've invested in the company. And PHG could be bitten by delays or unforeseen costs. I think it is very much in PHG's favor to run their own preorder through their own well-publicized site once they have a product nearly in hand. They don't seem to need KS funds and I don't think that they want to have to pay the KS cut, both in money and time wasted creating and managing a KS page.
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Joshua Russell
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KenToad wrote:
joshuar56 wrote:
youperguy wrote:
You can buy a second copy of the minis for $14.99 from PHG.

Not sure why you would need a Kickstarter. Different poses? Might be cool I suppose. I wouldn't pay for it, and I love Mice.

I'd like minis that accurately represent the elite rats, captain vurst,vanestra,skitter-clak from the original game, as well as well as the 7 new minion types in the expansion. Heck, they could even do a resin version do Brodie's paw. For me personally, I don't understand why you would do a board game with minis, if you're going to do it so half hearted. Might as well do card board stands.


I felt this way before I actually played the game. However, now I definitely am happy that they didn't produce miniatures to represent characters that don't take up space on the board. Brodie's paw and Meeps and Crumbles from the first Lost Chapter and the Slugs from Heart of Glorm are not meant to be counted as figures, so they can share the space with 1 large figure or 4 smaller figures. It would be irritating to have 3D minis for these tokens. I didn't care much about having elite rat minis, but I would like to have a new set of minis for skulking and mindless rats. I bet that PHG worries that sculpts of these figures would be too horrific for the younger members of the family that may be playing the game. Glorm already has caught some flack among fans for being too scary. And I'm just mentioning this to argue that the appeal for these types of figures is far from universal.

Also, I think that it must be remembered that the game's minis are sculpted by one guy, Chad Hoverter, who has a day job. I think that he has been busy producing figures for this and other games. If Plaid Hat wants to make some unique Boss or special character figures, then I would be down for that, but only if the quality and style matched the amazing figures already produced by Chad. I would not support a Kickstarter, as I hate that venue and Plaid Hat's refusal to patronize KS is one of the reason's why I'm so fond of PHG.

Also, you guys don't seem to understand that Kickstarter is not free for companies to use. It also forces companies to suffer the whiny masses, who feel somehow entitled by their pledges, as if they've invested in the company. And PHG could be bitten by delays or unforeseen costs. I think it is very much in PHG's favor to run their own preorder through their own well-publicized site once they have a product nearly in hand. They don't seem to need KS funds and I don't think that they want to have to pay the KS cut, both in money and time wasted creating and managing a KS page.

Most of the things you just listed aren't actually things I would like minis for. And the fact that they didn't produce minis for all of the minions in the first game, I think proves that they can't really afford to produce that many unique sculpts. That's why I suggested KS. If they can in fact afford to produce the minis, I would be fine ordering them directly through PHGs. But that doesn't seem to be the case.
 
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joshuar56 wrote:
KenToad wrote:
joshuar56 wrote:
youperguy wrote:
You can buy a second copy of the minis for $14.99 from PHG.

Not sure why you would need a Kickstarter. Different poses? Might be cool I suppose. I wouldn't pay for it, and I love Mice.

I'd like minis that accurately represent the elite rats, captain vurst,vanestra,skitter-clak from the original game, as well as well as the 7 new minion types in the expansion. Heck, they could even do a resin version do Brodie's paw. For me personally, I don't understand why you would do a board game with minis, if you're going to do it so half hearted. Might as well do card board stands.


I felt this way before I actually played the game. However, now I definitely am happy that they didn't produce miniatures to represent characters that don't take up space on the board. Brodie's paw and Meeps and Crumbles from the first Lost Chapter and the Slugs from Heart of Glorm are not meant to be counted as figures, so they can share the space with 1 large figure or 4 smaller figures. It would be irritating to have 3D minis for these tokens. I didn't care much about having elite rat minis, but I would like to have a new set of minis for skulking and mindless rats. I bet that PHG worries that sculpts of these figures would be too horrific for the younger members of the family that may be playing the game. Glorm already has caught some flack among fans for being too scary. And I'm just mentioning this to argue that the appeal for these types of figures is far from universal.

Also, I think that it must be remembered that the game's minis are sculpted by one guy, Chad Hoverter, who has a day job. I think that he has been busy producing figures for this and other games. If Plaid Hat wants to make some unique Boss or special character figures, then I would be down for that, but only if the quality and style matched the amazing figures already produced by Chad. I would not support a Kickstarter, as I hate that venue and Plaid Hat's refusal to patronize KS is one of the reason's why I'm so fond of PHG.

Also, you guys don't seem to understand that Kickstarter is not free for companies to use. It also forces companies to suffer the whiny masses, who feel somehow entitled by their pledges, as if they've invested in the company. And PHG could be bitten by delays or unforeseen costs. I think it is very much in PHG's favor to run their own preorder through their own well-publicized site once they have a product nearly in hand. They don't seem to need KS funds and I don't think that they want to have to pay the KS cut, both in money and time wasted creating and managing a KS page.

Most of the things you just listed aren't actually things I would like minis for. And the fact that they didn't produce minis for all of the minions in the first game, I think proves that they can't really afford to produce that many unique sculpts. That's why I suggested KS. If they can in fact afford to produce the minis, I would be fine ordering them directly through PHGs. But that doesn't seem to be the case.


I think it only proves that they found a number of minis and unique sculpts of such that would produce an economically viable msrp, i.e. a price that people were willing to pay. I personally wouldn't have paid extra then (or now) for elite rat sculpts or a different spider for vanestra or a different centipede for Skitter-clak because none of those are very different looking, just judging by their illustrations. A cool-looking Vurst would have been nice, but I can see why they didn't do it, as he is only involved in 3 or 4 chapters and maybe even having one less possible normal rat on the board benefits balance.

Have you played through the campaign yet? It might just change your mind about what things you would like to have represented by figures.
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Joshua Russell
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KenToad wrote:
joshuar56 wrote:
KenToad wrote:
joshuar56 wrote:
youperguy wrote:
You can buy a second copy of the minis for $14.99 from PHG.

Not sure why you would need a Kickstarter. Different poses? Might be cool I suppose. I wouldn't pay for it, and I love Mice.

I'd like minis that accurately represent the elite rats, captain vurst,vanestra,skitter-clak from the original game, as well as well as the 7 new minion types in the expansion. Heck, they could even do a resin version do Brodie's paw. For me personally, I don't understand why you would do a board game with minis, if you're going to do it so half hearted. Might as well do card board stands.


I felt this way before I actually played the game. However, now I definitely am happy that they didn't produce miniatures to represent characters that don't take up space on the board. Brodie's paw and Meeps and Crumbles from the first Lost Chapter and the Slugs from Heart of Glorm are not meant to be counted as figures, so they can share the space with 1 large figure or 4 smaller figures. It would be irritating to have 3D minis for these tokens. I didn't care much about having elite rat minis, but I would like to have a new set of minis for skulking and mindless rats. I bet that PHG worries that sculpts of these figures would be too horrific for the younger members of the family that may be playing the game. Glorm already has caught some flack among fans for being too scary. And I'm just mentioning this to argue that the appeal for these types of figures is far from universal.

Also, I think that it must be remembered that the game's minis are sculpted by one guy, Chad Hoverter, who has a day job. I think that he has been busy producing figures for this and other games. If Plaid Hat wants to make some unique Boss or special character figures, then I would be down for that, but only if the quality and style matched the amazing figures already produced by Chad. I would not support a Kickstarter, as I hate that venue and Plaid Hat's refusal to patronize KS is one of the reason's why I'm so fond of PHG.

Also, you guys don't seem to understand that Kickstarter is not free for companies to use. It also forces companies to suffer the whiny masses, who feel somehow entitled by their pledges, as if they've invested in the company. And PHG could be bitten by delays or unforeseen costs. I think it is very much in PHG's favor to run their own preorder through their own well-publicized site once they have a product nearly in hand. They don't seem to need KS funds and I don't think that they want to have to pay the KS cut, both in money and time wasted creating and managing a KS page.

Most of the things you just listed aren't actually things I would like minis for. And the fact that they didn't produce minis for all of the minions in the first game, I think proves that they can't really afford to produce that many unique sculpts. That's why I suggested KS. If they can in fact afford to produce the minis, I would be fine ordering them directly through PHGs. But that doesn't seem to be the case.


I think it only proves that they found a number of minis and unique sculpts of such that would produce an economically viable msrp, i.e. a price that people were willing to pay. I personally wouldn't have paid extra then (or now) for elite rat sculpts or a different spider for vanestra or a different centipede for Skitter-clak because none of those are very different looking, just judging by their illustrations. A cool-looking Vurst would have been nice, but I can see why they didn't do it, as he is only involved in 3 or 4 chapters and maybe even having one less possible normal rat on the board benefits balance.

Have you played through the campaign yet? It might just change your mind about what things you would like to have represented by figures.

I haven't played through the entire campaign, but I have played a few times, and already I would prefer to have elite rat sculpts. Especially when you have both on the board. I'm guessing you are in the minority when it comes to having more sculpts, especially judging just from this post alone. I also have already started painting my miniatures. If you are going to use minis in a board game, at least do it all the way, or just use cardboard stands. And since the game is already out, these extra minis obviously wouldn't be in the box set. They would be something extra you could buy. So you wouldn't HAVE to buy them.
 
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Enjoy painting them. Here are some of my finished figures:

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joshuar56 wrote:
If you are going to use minis in a board game, at least do it all the way, or just use cardboard stands. They shouldn't half ass it.

That's a pretty harsh attitude. They didn't 'half ass' anything. The game is great as it is. Would more unique sculpts be nice? Sure, but you could say that about any game. Why not have unique sculpts for each role in Pandemic? Because that stuff costs more and makes the game more expensive. To a company like Plaid Hat, how does it make sense to fill a box with a bunch of seldom-used minis and push the retail price up so high that you're taking it out of the price range of your target audience?

And yes, they theoretically could design, produce, and sell a new line of minis for people who want them. But keep in mind that sort of thing doesn't just magically happen. Even if they use Kickstarter to help with the initial funding, it still takes a lot of work for a two-man company. And while they'd be spending time and effort producing a niche add-on that doesn't bring any new content to the game, they wouldn't be putting that effort into new products (like Dead of Winter) with a wider appeal that will have a better chance to actually grow the company.
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Thanks Ray!

I would have LOVED to put more miniatures in M&M, but keeping the price down was a real challenge. I trust Colby's skill, knowledge, and instincts on these matters. I work within the parameters given, and I try to create the most visually pleasing and varied content possible within that framework.
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joshuar56 wrote:
Archr wrote:
joshuar56 wrote:
I posted this over at the PHG forums, but thought I would mention it here also. What if they ran a kickstarter to have minis produced for all the creatures not represented by miniatures? Such as the elite rats, slugs, and so forth? What is everyone's thoughts? I think it would be a great way of funding the molds for them, and then PlaidHat wouldn't need to take the risk of paying for the molds themselves.

From the podcasts, I'm pretty sure that Colby won't use Kickstarter for a Plaid Hat Games product.

That would be a shame. Their customers are the ones who suffer.


Oh, totally. We are being oppressed by PHG. I plan to draft a strongly-worded letter, and then I'm off to complain about the box insert for Ticket to Ride: Butthurt.
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Joshua Russell
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RMGreen wrote:
joshuar56 wrote:
If you are going to use minis in a board game, at least do it all the way, or just use cardboard stands. They shouldn't half ass it.

That's a pretty harsh attitude. They didn't 'half ass' anything. The game is great as it is. Would more unique sculpts be nice? Sure, but you could say that about any game. Why not have unique sculpts for each role in Pandemic? Because that stuff costs more and makes the game more expensive. To a company like Plaid Hat, how does it make sense to fill a box with a bunch of seldom-used minis and push the retail price up so high that you're taking it out of the price range of your target audience?

And yes, they theoretically could design, produce, and sell a new line of minis for people who want them. But keep in mind that sort of thing doesn't just magically happen. Even if they use Kickstarter to help with the initial funding, it still takes a lot of work for a two-man company. And while they'd be spending time and effort producing a niche add-on that doesn't bring any new content to the game, they wouldn't be putting that effort into new products (like Dead of Winter) with a wider appeal that will have a better chance to actually grow the company.

I was being sarcastic when I said that. And again, I understand why they didn't do miniatures for every minion, but that doesn't mean they can't do them now. There are plenty of sculptors out there who are more than capable of matching the style. And to those who keep saying that more minis would have drive the price up. Why do minis at all then? Why not cardboard stands for everything? Then it would be even cheaper. It doesn't make sense to me to only do some things in mini form. Then the miniature people just get left wanting more. Like that AT&T commercial, you want more, you want more. I don't see how a KS could be a bad thing. If there are enough people who want these to get made, then it gets paid for and PHG could pay another sculptor to do them. If it doesn't, then there wasnt enough demand, and PHG doesn't end up risking losing money.
 
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joshuar56 wrote:
I don't see how a KS could be a bad thing.

Everything else aside, just running a Kickstarter Campaign is a lot of work.

Since Colby is already hesitant to use Kickstarter for his company in the first place, he likely would find the extra effort/manpower/time required for running a campaign not worth diverting from other projects. Personally, I would rather the PHG team work on more scenarios and brand new gameplay content than spend a bunch of time preparing, organizing and running a KS campaign just for some extra minis.

Regardless of the fact that I've backed nearly 30 projects, I TOTALLY respect and appreciate Colby's stance on his "established company" not utilizing it themselves. When all of these "established companies" start using Kickstarter as nothing more than a preorder system (even though I am guilty of supporting a few of these myself) it does feel a bit to me like "the big kids hogging the playground" and something about that doesn't seem right.
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