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Subject: Inspiration in the basic game? rss

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Richard Ham
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In the new rules doc, I can't quite figure out if inspiration is part of the base game or the advanced game. I assume advanced?
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Erich Schneider
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Inspiration (the effect of moving through burns with a triangle) applies to the basic game also.
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Phil Eklund
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As Erich says, the basic game plays better if the triangle burns are used to generate inspiration. Furthermore, if you ever plan on playing Colonization, its event table is designed to work with inspiration and is not influenced by triangle burns.
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Richard Ham
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AAARGH! I just spent 4 hours doing a video runthrough of this game NOT using the inspiration rule because it seems VERY clear from the new rules (and the original rules) that it's not part of the base game! Are you sure? The actual definition of how they work is in the advanced/colonization section of the rules so I thought for sure that meant that it's an advanced game concept.

I really don't want to have to do this whole thing over again!!!

Slingshots are still not part of the base game, are they?
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Wulf Corbett
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Just put a note on the video. The rules are modular and, as you've seen... prone to changes...
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Bob Bob742
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rahdo wrote:
Slingshots are still not part of the base game, are they?


I know this doesn't really help, as the rules keep changing, but

in the original rules slingshots WERE NOT a part of the base game (we used them anyway).

Colonization...?
Thanks for working on a run through for this Mr rahdo! thumbsup
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James Ross
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rahdo wrote:
AAARGH! I just spent 4 hours doing a video runthrough of this game NOT using the inspiration rule because it seems VERY clear from the new rules (and the original rules) that it's not part of the base game! Are you sure? The actual definition of how they work is in the advanced/colonization section of the rules so I thought for sure that meant that it's an advanced game concept.

I really don't want to have to do this whole thing over again!!!

Slingshots are still not part of the base game, are they?


This brings up two points I have with the game that prevent its purchase:

1) The constant, or so it seems, living rules and all the rule readjustments and/or clarifications that permeate the game, even if they are wonderfully detailed and leave little room for rule misinterpretation.

2) There is no video, barring Rahdo's upcoming run through (hopefully), showing how to play the game; I simply like to know how a game is played, even if I have downloaded the rules and perused them at my leisurely pace.
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Wulf Corbett
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yetikeeper wrote:
This brings up two points I have with the game that prevent its purchase:
I playtested this game, and I still play with the rules that came in the box. They work perfectly well.

Phil, you'll read this, I'm sure. Please stop fiddling around with finished games. No game is perfect, and quite possibly you're just enjoying playing with the rules. But it's like Windows updating every few days - it makes it look unfinished and riddled with errors, and it's offputting.
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Richard Ham
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Well, that mistake really bugged me, as if I had been using the triangles, the game would have potentially gone quite differently. So I'm going to try recording another runthrough tomorrow... hopefully it won't take quite so long.

Question for those in the know: I'm wondering if I should do a runthough with the 1.0 rules? I don't have a copy of the advanced game expansion or Colonization... just a normal first printing. Having seen how all the new stuff hits the game (2/4 money split seeming to make auctions less interesting because of lack of money making options, D sites no longer being wild cards making it harder to get ventures, seemingly overpowered strategy of using one factory to make multiple advanced goods, etc.) left me wondering if I'd be better off sticking to v1.0?

Thoughts? Should I demonstrate the classic 1.0 rules, or the latest living rules? What's the general consensus of which is better for a basic game, with only 2 players?
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Jeff Chamberlain
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rahdo wrote:
... D sites no longer being wild cards making it harder to get ventures...


D-sites never counted toward ventures when they were wild, not even in the original rules. They used to let you build any type of factory on the site, but they never allowed you to count the prospect as being of any type you wanted for the purpose of claiming ventures. The prospect was always a D and never an S, V, or M.
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Richard Ham
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Klintus Fang wrote:
rahdo wrote:
... D sites no longer being wild cards making it harder to get ventures...


D-sites never counted toward ventures when they were wild, not even in the original rules. They used to let you build any type of factory on the site, but they never allowed you to count the prospect as being of any type you wanted for the purpose of claiming ventures. The prospect was always a D and never an S, V, or M.


Yup, forgot that (still very new to the game) and it even says that on the map But now they're not wildcards anymore, I assume you can still build factories on them solely for refueling and assisted landing/takeoffs.

Still curious what folks think is the better way to go re: filming. I just found out my player sheets are out of date and there should be more steps on the low mass lines! And I guess the map itself has changed as well?
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Richard Ham
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phileklund wrote:
As Erich says, the basic game plays better if the triangle burns are used to generate inspiration. Furthermore, if you ever plan on playing Colonization, its event table is designed to work with inspiration and is not influenced by triangle burns.


Double AAARGH! Okay, I just now noticed that this post was from Phil the designer of the game! But it's STILL not definitive. Phil, what is the official rule. Is inspiration part of basic or not? Your answer leaves it open to interpretation, and people are stating definitively in another thread (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1073427/question-salad-a...) that it's NOT part of basic!!!
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Phil Eklund
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Wulf Corbett wrote:
yetikeeper wrote:
This brings up two points I have with the game that prevent its purchase:
I playtested this game, and I still play with the rules that came in the box. They work perfectly well.

Phil, you'll read this, I'm sure. Please stop fiddling around with finished games. No game is perfect, and quite possibly you're just enjoying playing with the rules. But it's like Windows updating every few days - it makes it look unfinished and riddled with errors, and it's offputting.


Regarding Inspiration in the Basic Game: As I said, I think the Basic Game plays better with Inspiration. I recommend it. BUT If you are playing with the "As-Published" rules, all the "backfitted" rules are listed in 14.7, and Inspiration is not one of them. If playing with these rules, Richard Ham and others are right, Inspiration is NOT part of the Basic Game. On the other hand, if you are playing with the "Alive and Complete" rules, Inspiration is now in Section D2 in the Basic Rules, so if you play a Basic Game using A + C, you play with Inspiration.

Hello Wulf, yes I read you loud and clear, both barrels. This is a OCD personality flaw of mine. In my defense, I am maintaining the A + C rules especially with an eye towards a third edition. Someday. Today there is a total of three 2nd edition High Frontier Games left in the entire world for sale, so a 3rd edition is thinkable.

Here are the dozen rule changes (only a dozen, not countless) that I am supporting since publication (the references are using the "Alive and Complete" rules).

1) The Space Tourism Venture (I2) still allows your crew card to perform two operations instead of one, but only until the robots get emancipated (N3).
2) You may move a card the same turn it is Digitally swapped, but not the same turn it was ET produced (M3).
3) The Emancipator must pay 2 WT instead of 1 WT for operations using a colonist (M1). Crew actions continue to be free. Furthermore, any colonist controlled by the Emancipator but not loyal to him may be hostile recruited per N5.
4) GW thrusters (Part S) are affected only by solar-power modifiers (F4), not by support modifiers to thrust or fuel economy.
5) Supports used by the Magnetocaloric Refrigerator only cannot be used to modify thrust.
6) Industrialization Perk (P2) is now optional.
7). Freighters (P4) may always land or lift-off of size one sites.
8). The Ersatz-Bernal is always promoted.
9) Radiators not in active use are immune to hazards while on a Bernal.
10) If you sell a black card to another's Bernal, you must pay him what he requests.
11) Performing the New Comet Future (i.e. flying a comet into Venus) busts the comet site, and transfers its factory and its stack to the “Venus Aerostat-Xity” site (if there is a factory there, it gets replaced).
12) For better balance of Futures, the Beehive Ark and Supreme Cult Leader Futures require performing an epic hazard, and the Daedalus Future requires having a TNO Lab.

As Wulf says, none of these changes are actually essential to enjoy a game. They just tweak issues of balance and realism.
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Kristoff Bergenholm
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*rubs head*

The A&C rules seem to confuse the issue slightly, I always considered 'Advanced' High Frontier to be the base game, plus the support decks, along with all of the rules for politics, events, radiation, slingshots, etc.

Now it also has the Bernals, Colonists, and other Colonization-only items listed..
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Richard Ham
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And and from the A&C rules, I infer that the expanded map is part of the base game too.

In the end, I just did the runthrough based on the 1.0 rules, since that the actual game I had. When I realized that my actual 1.0 components are wrong for the newer rules, I just went back to basics!
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Wulf Corbett
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rahdo wrote:
Thoughts? Should I demonstrate the classic 1.0 rules, or the latest living rules?
Play the rules that come with your box, add a note that there are changes in detail in newer rules, and the A&C/Living Rules online. Phil says there are only 3 unsold copies of 2nd edition out there, (some sold copies will undoubtedly be in some retailers' stock, but still), so it's not like someone can run out and grab a copy, this will be a video for those who have it on the shelf, glaring at them accusingly...
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Wulf Corbett
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High Frontier has become very like a video game, an online multiplayer affair with masses of updates, versions, patches & mods. Before anyone actually plays they have to agree which game they actually have...
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