Connor
United Kingdom
Bristol
flag msg tools
Hi,

So I'm new to war games but have done experience with board games. I really like the look of this game and theme but the rules look complex, although I'm happy to sit down and get my head around the game I don't know if I'll be able to coerce anyone else I know into it. So I'm wondering if Twilight Struggle or Andean Abyss would be a better off starting point or if this is pretty much the same in terms of complexity?

Cheers in advance
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Francisco
United States
Cumberland
Rhode Island
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
For a new player, my advice would be Twilight Struggle since it has the most streamlined rules and is probably easiest to digest.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Dilloo
United States
Bothell
Washington
flag msg tools
Everything is relative to perception, and your perception is limited.
badge
The Ginger Ninja
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Cuba Libre

I agree with Jack, would probably recommend TS first. Labyrinth, Andean Abyss and Cuba Libre have the benefit of being solo-able, but none of those are in the easy to digest category.

Haven't played Andean Abyss, but from what I gather, Cuba Libre might be slightly more noob friendly.

ALL of these are great games.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oliver Paul
Iceland
Reykjavik
None
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
+1 for TS
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Connor
United Kingdom
Bristol
flag msg tools
Cheers, do of these games have similar systems just different levels of complexity? Also thanks for mentioning Cuba Libre, after looking up I now have yet another game to add to my overwhelming Amazon wishlist.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Conor Hickey
Ireland
Dublin
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Twilight Struggle is definitely the least complex of these three, rules-wise.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
PJ Killian
United States
Watertown
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Labyrinth isn't too crazy-hard but it's a step up from TS. If you have a willing partner to play some sloppy learning games with 'til you figure it out, or if you're looking for a game that you can solo, or if the theme is just that much more interesting to you, pick up Labyrinth.

If you're planning on two player gaming exclusively, you're more or less just as interested in TS's theme as you are in Labyrinth's, and/or you just want a relatively uncluttered set of rules, get TS.

Andean Abyss can be played with fewer than four players, but it's definitely at its best with exactly four. Whether AA is better for you than Labyrinth begins by addressing the question of how many people will be playing. It's definitely not any simpler than Lab.

Of the card driven games and COIN series games I've played, I would rank them, in order from least to most complex, thus:

1960
Twilight Struggle
We The People
Labyrinth
Sword of Rome
Wilderness War
Andean Abyss
The Napoleonic Wars
Here I Stand
Virgin Queen
WWII: Barbarossa to Berlin
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Loyd Kneph
United States
Oklahoma City
OK
flag msg tools
mb
Labyrinth because you can solitaire play it.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Robinson
United States
Neptune City
New Jersey
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Twilight Struggle if playing multiplayer, Labyrinth of you are playing solitaire.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dick Hunt
United States
Orlando
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
1960: The Making of the President tops all of the above for ease of learning, but it is probably the least solitaire-friendly of the bunch. My favorite 2-player game, though.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Kossits
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There are some excellent solo rules available for Twilight Struggle on here. Little hard to understand from the text only, but a flowchart is available that clears things up nicely.

I would choose Twilight Struggle for solo or 2 player. Easy and fun.
I think Labyrinth, while very worthwhile, can be too frustrating as a first game for a newbie. Having large prolonged effort by the player cancelled by a single bad die roll in a fraction of a second is very difficult on the player's morale and it happens constantly.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Connor
United Kingdom
Bristol
flag msg tools
Cheers guys, I think I'm gonna go for TS, and then if I get into it then I'll fork out for Labyrinth, AA or Cuba Libre.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sam Butler
United States
Fort Walton Beach
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
CmdrOverbite wrote:

Of the card driven games and COIN series games I've played, I would rank them, in order from least to most complex, thus:

1960
Twilight Struggle
We The People
Labyrinth
Sword of Rome
Wilderness War
Andean Abyss
The Napoleonic Wars
Here I Stand
Virgin Queen
WWII: Barbarossa to Berlin


I would add in A Distant Plain (Afghanistan COIN game) at about the same complexity as Andean Abyss, although I haven't played AA so I can't comment as to which one is actually more complex.

I agree with a previous poster that Twilight Struggle is a great entry-level game to the CDG genre, with Labyrinth a bit more complex (but not prohibitively so...you could have it be your first CDG, especially if you want a game Solo-playable or the theme is more interesting to you). A Distant Plain is a fabulous game, currently my favorite, but it is best to have a CDG under your belt first...or at a minimum, be playing several 4-player games (or 2-player games controlling two factions per player), before adding in any bots.

That said, if you are going to be playing with more than 2 players, Cuba Libre, A Distant Plain, and Andean Abyss are all reasonable choices (with Cuba Libre being the easiest from what I've heard, although A Distant Plain is the only one I have played)...1960, Twilight Struggle, and Labyrinth in particular cannot be played with >2 players.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Olav Riediger
Germany
flag msg tools
badge
Alex crossing the Jaxartes... tricky endeavour.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
To my mind, these games are all really great. What has been said so far is pretty much my opinion as well.

However, if you really like WAR games, these games are possibly not the ones you are looking for. If you like moving armies around and conquer territory, this is something else.

Don't get me wrong! I am a war gamer, and I like TS, Lab, AA, CL, and ADP. But they feel not as warish as other games I have.

Cheers, Olav
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.