Recommend
7 
 Thumb up
 Hide
41 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Argent: The Consortium» Forums » News

Subject: Expansion Unlocked! rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Trey Chambers
United States
Houston
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Check out the content of the expansion add on and read the update here:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/level99games/argent-the-...

Key features:

-Added 6th player capacity
-New school of magic
-New worker type with unique power
-New player characters
-New rooms for the university
-New spells, supporters, and especially items


We have other ideas planned as well, some of which are stretch goals. This will truly be an amazing expansion and will be full of tons of new content!
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donny Behne
United States
Fate
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
www.punchboardmedia.com/geaux-gaming/
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I was really looking forward to this one. The concept of technomancy is fascinating to me. Seeing it fleshed out here is awesome.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ubergeek
United States
Washougal
Washington
flag msg tools
Be Happy in your Game!
badge
I spent 100 Geek Gold and all I got was this lousy overtext message!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Which of those are Kickstarter exclusives and which will be included in the retail version of the game?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donny Behne
United States
Fate
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
www.punchboardmedia.com/geaux-gaming/
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Walt Mulder wrote:
Which of those are Kickstarter exclusives and which will be included in the retail version of the game?


I'm pretty sure none of it is exclusive.
3 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trey Chambers
United States
Houston
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Walt Mulder wrote:
Which of those are Kickstarter exclusives and which will be included in the retail version of the game?


None of the content for Argent is Kickstarter exclusive, though if you buy any of the packages that comes with BattleCON: Devastation of Indines it has all of the Kickstarter and promo stuff inside of that game.

For Argent, Level 99 decided against KS exclusives because they caused a lot of logistics problems with Devastation.

As a board game enthusiast, I am against them in principle because nothing is more frustrating than finding a game you love, but finding out you are unable to get some of the content for the game.

The incentives for supporting the Argent KS are thus:
-first copies of the game
-free delivery inside of the U.S.
-helping us make the game better by helping with the KS campaign

I hope you'll join us!
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bella
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It sounded (in the KS comments) like there was a possibility (maybe stretch goal?) of additional NON-GAMEPLAY content being available for KS backers, such as art prints. Maybe upgraded components (metal or plastic coins instead of cardboard tokens, etc)? Also, other campaigns have offered things like fabric storage bags with the game name embroidered, or game art printed on the bags. Some ideas to think about? Once you've shown that your game is excellent (like Argent certainly has), fancier bits as a next step will definitely draw more backers...they can be given to either all backers (as stretch goals) or KS backers only. The retail version of the game would still contain all the gameplay components, just not the extra/fancier things offered via Kickstarter. This gives many people that extra reason to support now.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trey Chambers
United States
Houston
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Litespeed Rider wrote:
It sounded (in the KS comments) like there was a possibility (maybe stretch goal?) of additional NON-GAMEPLAY content being available for KS backers, such as art prints. Maybe upgraded components (metal or plastic coins instead of cardboard tokens, etc)? Also, other campaigns have offered things like fabric storage bags with the game name embroidered, or game art printed on the bags. Some ideas to think about? Once you've shown that your game is excellent (like Argent certainly has), fancier bits as a next step will definitely draw more backers...they can be given to either all backers (as stretch goals) or KS backers only. The retail version of the game would still contain all the gameplay components, just not the extra/fancier things offered via Kickstarter. This gives many people that extra reason to support now.


There are many stretch goals planned, some of which upgrade components. And the art book is in the works as well.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marc Bennett
United States
Illinois
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
and miniatures! i dont think we need miniatures for this game, but i really want some! lol and i think noko was drawing some concept sketches for them and they were looking great.

i know euphoria did some upgraded components and they are fantastic! (just got my copy!)
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marc Bennett
United States
Illinois
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
kelann08 wrote:
I was really looking forward to this one. The concept of technomancy is fascinating to me. Seeing it fleshed out here is awesome.


did you read through the department descriptions? lots of good info there
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ray Smith
United States
Newburg
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Stay thirsty my friends.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So great to see this develop!!

But, to set me straight, the Mancers expansion is separate from the core game and must be purchased independently or as a bundle with Argent (i.e. at the new SOPHOMORE level)?

Will they be delivered together, or will Mancers be released after delivery of the core game?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthias Fischer
Poland
Warszawa
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
rdsmith wrote:
So great to see this develop!!

But, to set me straight, the Mancers expansion is separate from the core game and must be purchased independently or as a bundle with Argent (i.e. at the new SOPHOMORE level)?

Will they be delivered together, or will Mancers be released after delivery of the core game?

You get the expansion together with Argent at the SOPHOMORE level or the DOCTORATE level (together with Devastation of Indines and its expansions). I'm sure that delivery will be together with Argent.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
蓝魔
United Kingdom
Bingham
Nottinghamshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Shampoo4you wrote:
This will truly be an amazing expansion and will be full of tons of new content!


As this is a brand new game the whole thing is full of "new" content, so apart from money grabbing whilst appearing to be generous why is this advertised as an expansion instead of "the box of stuff we didn't include in the first place" ??

Shampoo4you wrote:
None of the content for Argent is Kickstarter exclusive.


So again, apart from an attempt to demonstrate that I'd be getting this cheaper (a financial gain of sorts) if I pledged on KS now, which is nearly always not true particularly when no KS exclusives or add-ons are part of the deal, rather than wait until retail release, what's the point ??

Despite my tone I really want to back this, but the lack of incentives is making it pretty difficult .. whistle
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
.
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
moocifer wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:
This will truly be an amazing expansion and will be full of tons of new content!


As this is a brand new game the whole thing is full of "new" content, so apart from money grabbing whilst appearing to be generous why is this advertised as an expansion instead of "the box of stuff we didn't include in the first place" ??

Because if it was advertised as a single package from the start, the base pledge would have been intimidatingly high? And because the publisher did not want to commit to investing in a print run of the expansion without some assurance that enough people would support the base game? If you think not wanting to go into financial ruin is "money grubbing" then I don't know what to tell you.

Quote:

Shampoo4you wrote:
None of the content for Argent is Kickstarter exclusive.


So again, apart from an attempt to demonstrate that I'd be getting this cheaper (a financial gain of sorts) if I pledged on KS now, which is nearly always not true particularly when no KS exclusives or add-ons are part of the deal, rather than wait until retail release, what's the point ??

Despite my tone I really want to back this, but the lack of incentives is making it pretty difficult .. whistle

I'll give you the same response as when you asked this on the kickstarter comments page: I truly believe that getting the game earlier and cheaper than the retail version is a sufficient reward. In addition, supporting now means helping unlock stretch goals, which means more content in the game overall and thus an even better value.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
蓝魔
United Kingdom
Bingham
Nottinghamshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ElAdoranSureshot wrote:
I truly believe that getting the game earlier and cheaper than the retail version is a sufficient reward.


From the KS update:

Kickstarter wrote:
I expect Argent to retail at $60 and 'Mancers to retail at $40 by the end of the campaign, so this is a great way to get them at an early discount.


So that's RRP which nothing ever sells at or anyone in their right mind ever pays - and we are being offered them at $85. Add on the $36 for outside of US shipping and now try telling me again that I'd be getting Argent cheaper by backing it now on KS ..
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
.
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
The extra cost of international shipping is a good point, and one that I can't argue. As for buying the game at full retail price, I do it all the time because I like my local store.

Backing the kickstarter now still gets you the game sooner than it would be available through other means, and still helps unlock more content. Which is kind of the point of Kickstarter in the first place--helping someone fund a project that otherwise wouldn't happen.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
.
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
And technically there are a few kickstarter exclusives still available if you back at the "design a voter" level...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthias Fischer
Poland
Warszawa
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
For me an additional problem is availability after the kickstarter. War and Devastation of Indines e.g. is not available anywhere at a local dealer or any online store that I know of. Thus, I would need to order the games now in the US with a shipping rate a lot higher than the kickstarter.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trey Chambers
United States
Houston
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
moocifer wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:
This will truly be an amazing expansion and will be full of tons of new content!


As this is a brand new game the whole thing is full of "new" content, so apart from money grabbing whilst appearing to be generous why is this advertised as an expansion instead of "the box of stuff we didn't include in the first place" ??

Shampoo4you wrote:
None of the content for Argent is Kickstarter exclusive.


So again, apart from an attempt to demonstrate that I'd be getting this cheaper (a financial gain of sorts) if I pledged on KS now, which is nearly always not true particularly when no KS exclusives or add-ons are part of the deal, rather than wait until retail release, what's the point ??

Despite my tone I really want to back this, but the lack of incentives is making it pretty difficult .. whistle


I don't quite understand your first point. "the box of stuff we didn't include in the first place"? Isn't that what an expansion is, thus "expanding" upon the base game?

If you're just wondering why there is a separate box for the Technomancy stuff and we didn't just cram it all into the base game, there are many reasons. I actually fleshed them all out below, but let me summarize because I kind of got carried away: the components would not have fit in the base game box, it would have made the base game price higher than what the publisher wanted, the Technomancy school is so different that it deserved its own focus, and it would have made the base game too complex and unwieldy for most new players to learn easily.

More details if you want them:

1. It wouldn't fit, physically. The publisher wanted to do a Ticket to Ride size box for Argent (many folks favorite box size, and one of the more shelf-friendly and shipping-friendly box sizes). Now, once both are punched, bagged, inserts thrown away, they might both fit inside the base game box, but not before that happens.

2. There are A LOT of components in the Technomancy expansion, and it would have made the cost for Argent prohibitive for many people if we included it in the base game. Thankfully many fans are sure they are going to love the game and have went ahead and added the expansion, but there's no way we'd have as many backers as we do now if the price of the base game was $85.

3. While Argent gameplay is simple to understand at its core (on most turns you simply place a worker or cast a spell), there are a lot of moving parts, a diverse set of unique rooms, spells, and items, lots of iconography...etc. We want the base game to be as streamlined and accessible as possible, while still having a lot of depth, variety, and complexity. Once you know Argent, adding the expansion will be no big deal, but absorbing all of the base game content + expansion content in your first play would have been overwhelming to say the least.

4. Thematically, having 5 departments in the base game and fleshing them out was quite an undertaking. When I designed the game 3 years ago there were only 4. There is simply no way the 6th could have been done justice, especially since it is so different from the other 5 (it is more item-focused than spell-focused).

5. Speaking of which, the item deck in the base game is interesting, but only a small part of the larger game. There is much more focus on spells and supporters in the base game. The expansion really brings items into focus and makes them as important as the other two card decks. So both thematically and mechanically it is very different from the base game experience which justifies it being a separate add-on.

6. And speaking of mechanics, the expansion adds a few completely new mechanics as well. Item crafting and scenario events to name a couple. Nothing so radical that it will require relearning the system, but different enough it would have made the game much harder to get into.

7. You don't want to play this game with 6 new players. But many people, myself included, will throw caution to the wind and try to play a game with a max player count right out of the box. If the 6th player was enabled in the base game, I know some groups would have tried this, and their experience would potentially be marred. I don't think you need to be a full blown veteran to throw in the expansion, but I definitely recommend having played once or twice before throwing it in. And DEFINITELY before trying to play with 6.

As for "why should I back the Kickstarter?", there are several reasons:

-You'll get the game first. Judging by the Devastation release dates currently on websites like Coolstuff, a good month or two or three ahead of schedule.
-Shipping is free in the U.S.
-You are personally helping the game better. By pledging, you're helping us reach stretch goals that will improve both the game's content and components. More stretch goals will be released soon to that effect.

Yes, you could wait the extra month(s) for retailers to get it, and buy it from an online store as part of a large order to save $7 or so (otherwise you're paying shipping and thus not saving any money at all). But by being part of the KS campaign you are taking part of the creation of the game, getting cool and informative updates, interacting with the publisher and designer along the way, providing feedback, and finding out about different stretch goals and pledge packages.

I'm happy you're interested in the game, but I hope you'll also help support the KS campaign.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trey Chambers
United States
Houston
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
A good parallel might be Cosmic Encounter. There is a LOT going on in the base game already. But throw in a couple of their small box expansions and you've just about doubled the content and complexity. However, if you've played the base game they aren't too hard to throw in. But if they were actually included in the base game, it would have been a nightmare for a new player.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
蓝魔
United Kingdom
Bingham
Nottinghamshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Shampoo4you wrote:

I'm happy you're interested in the game, but I hope you'll also help support the KS campaign.


Thanks for the response. Ultimately though I am still undecided and underwhelmed by the KS campaign but will hang on in for the time being ..
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trey Chambers
United States
Houston
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
moocifer wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:

I'm happy you're interested in the game, but I hope you'll also help support the KS campaign.


Thanks for the response. Ultimately though I am still undecided and underwhelmed by the KS campaign but will hang on in for the time being ..


Happy to hear it. Hopefully when he announces the next round of stretch goals your enthusiasm will be reignited.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sarah Reed
United States
Rancho Cordova
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I am so happy that there are not KS exclusives! I really hate that because it turns me off if I missed the KS.

Now obviously here, I'm onboard the KS, but game companies need to consider how well the product will sell after the KS. If they have too much gameplay content that is exclusive, then retail purchasers might not buy it when they see they can't get everything. So I'm in favor of making sure the game and company is successful both on Kickstarter and after Kickstarter.

One extreme example is Fallen. Almost 75% of what you could get on the campaign was exclusive so I have no idea how well that's going to fare in the retail setting. I really think they shot themselves in the foot with that much exclusive gameplay content.

Now, I am for cosmetic exclusives like a different box, art prints, etc. Those don't affect gameplay at all and most people won't care later on if they missed those.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donny Behne
United States
Fate
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
www.punchboardmedia.com/geaux-gaming/
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm glad there aren't an overwhelming number of exclusives (in this case, none). I like having all my options (completionist's disease) and a campaign where I don't have to worry about that is great. I felt like Myth had just the right number of exclusives but, even better, most of the best ones will be available in future kickstarters so people who missed the first one can get them in the second one. They are still available, just not at retail. Argent skipping them entirely is a refreshing change. The sheer level of interaction with Brad and Trey makes this a very rewarding experience and plenty of motivation.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marc Bennett
United States
Illinois
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Shampoo4you wrote:
moocifer wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:
This will truly be an amazing expansion and will be full of tons of new content!


As this is a brand new game the whole thing is full of "new" content, so apart from money grabbing whilst appearing to be generous why is this advertised as an expansion instead of "the box of stuff we didn't include in the first place" ??

Shampoo4you wrote:
None of the content for Argent is Kickstarter exclusive.


So again, apart from an attempt to demonstrate that I'd be getting this cheaper (a financial gain of sorts) if I pledged on KS now, which is nearly always not true particularly when no KS exclusives or add-ons are part of the deal, rather than wait until retail release, what's the point ??

Despite my tone I really want to back this, but the lack of incentives is making it pretty difficult .. whistle


I don't quite understand your first point. "the box of stuff we didn't include in the first place"? Isn't that what an expansion is, thus "expanding" upon the base game?

If you're just wondering why there is a separate box for the Technomancy stuff and we didn't just cram it all into the base game, there are many reasons. I actually fleshed them all out below, but let me summarize because I kind of got carried away: the components would not have fit in the base game box, it would have made the base game price higher than what the publisher wanted, the Technomancy school is so different that it deserved its own focus, and it would have made the base game too complex and unwieldy for most new players to learn easily.

More details if you want them:

1. It wouldn't fit, physically. The publisher wanted to do a Ticket to Ride size box for Argent (many folks favorite box size, and one of the more shelf-friendly and shipping-friendly box sizes). Now, once both are punched, bagged, inserts thrown away, they might both fit inside the base game box, but not before that happens.

2. There are A LOT of components in the Technomancy expansion, and it would have made the cost for Argent prohibitive for many people if we included it in the base game. Thankfully many fans are sure they are going to love the game and have went ahead and added the expansion, but there's no way we'd have as many backers as we do now if the price of the base game was $85.

3. While Argent gameplay is simple to understand at its core (on most turns you simply place a worker or cast a spell), there are a lot of moving parts, a diverse set of unique rooms, spells, and items, lots of iconography...etc. We want the base game to be as streamlined and accessible as possible, while still having a lot of depth, variety, and complexity. Once you know Argent, adding the expansion will be no big deal, but absorbing all of the base game content + expansion content in your first play would have been overwhelming to say the least.

4. Thematically, having 5 departments in the base game and fleshing them out was quite an undertaking. When I designed the game 3 years ago there were only 4. There is simply no way the 6th could have been done justice, especially since it is so different from the other 5 (it is more item-focused than spell-focused).

5. Speaking of which, the item deck in the base game is interesting, but only a small part of the larger game. There is much more focus on spells and supporters in the base game. The expansion really brings items into focus and makes them as important as the other two card decks. So both thematically and mechanically it is very different from the base game experience which justifies it being a separate add-on.

6. And speaking of mechanics, the expansion adds a few completely new mechanics as well. Item crafting and scenario events to name a couple. Nothing so radical that it will require relearning the system, but different enough it would have made the game much harder to get into.

7. You don't want to play this game with 6 new players. But many people, myself included, will throw caution to the wind and try to play a game with a max player count right out of the box. If the 6th player was enabled in the base game, I know some groups would have tried this, and their experience would potentially be marred. I don't think you need to be a full blown veteran to throw in the expansion, but I definitely recommend having played once or twice before throwing it in. And DEFINITELY before trying to play with 6.

As for "why should I back the Kickstarter?", there are several reasons:

-You'll get the game first. Judging by the Devastation release dates currently on websites like Coolstuff, a good month or two or three ahead of schedule.
-Shipping is free in the U.S.
-You are personally helping the game better. By pledging, you're helping us reach stretch goals that will improve both the game's content and components. More stretch goals will be released soon to that effect.

Yes, you could wait the extra month(s) for retailers to get it, and buy it from an online store as part of a large order to save $7 or so (otherwise you're paying shipping and thus not saving any money at all). But by being part of the KS campaign you are taking part of the creation of the game, getting cool and informative updates, interacting with the publisher and designer along the way, providing feedback, and finding out about different stretch goals and pledge packages.

I'm happy you're interested in the game, but I hope you'll also help support the KS campaign.


you forgot the advantage of getting to watch noko draw the art! i love that lol. watching her draw the art that will be in the game is fascinating to me.

and when exactly will the miniat... er i mean next round of stretch goals be announced?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marc Bennett
United States
Illinois
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Shampoo4you wrote:
moocifer wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:

I'm happy you're interested in the game, but I hope you'll also help support the KS campaign.


Thanks for the response. Ultimately though I am still undecided and underwhelmed by the KS campaign but will hang on in for the time being ..


Happy to hear it. Hopefully when he announces the next round of stretch goals your enthusiasm will be reignited.


i know mine will be! of course mine isnt being diminished.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.