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Subject: Run Deflection and Exploratory Romp - A Surprising Ruling rss

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Ben Finkel
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Ben wrote:
If the Runner plays Exploratory Romp, initiating a run, and the run is deflected through the usage of Bullfrog or Copycat to another server but the run still succeeds, can the Runner trigger Exploratory Romp's "instead of accessing" ability? If so, does the runner remove advancement tokens from a card in/protecting the server she ended up succeeding in, or from the server she initiated the run on?

(this question is secretly also asking about the upcoming Singularity, but I know it's your general policy not to answer questions about unreleased cards. Still, I'm curious as to what happens if Singularity gets deflected to a different remote server, or to a central server).


Lukas wrote:
Ben,

Thanks for the question. The Runner makes a run, and if it is successful (against any server) he or she can choose not to access cards and remove advancement tokens from cards in the server that was initially attacked. Hope that helps,

--
Lukas Litzsinger


Well, I'm shocked! I've followed up by asking about Demolition Run, Retrieval Run, Sneakdoor Beta, Indexing, Account Siphon, Vamp, Escher, Expert Schedule Analyzer, and The Maker's Eye, too.

This sets a strange precedence, I gotta say.
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Jacek Wieszaczewski
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Azeltir wrote:
I've followed up by asking about Demolition Run, Retrieval Run, Sneakdoor Beta, Indexing, Account Siphon, Vamp, Escher, Expert Schedule Analyzer, and The Maker's Eye

All of those mention a specific server. Exploratory Romp doesn't, all you have to do is to make a successful run.

My guess based on the ruling: Demolition Run still works if you get deflected from R&D to HQ or the other way round, the others don't work (unless you end up being deflected more than once ending up running the same server that you originally ran on). And Bank Job still works if you are deflected from one remote to another, but not if you were deflected to a central.
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Daniel D
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Azeltir wrote:
Well, I'm shocked! I've followed up by asking about Demolition Run, Retrieval Run, Sneakdoor Beta, Indexing, Account Siphon, Vamp, Escher, Expert Schedule Analyzer, and The Maker's Eye, too.

This sets a strange precedence, I gotta say.



Indeed... so what it basically means is that the "If successful" conditional does not expand to be "If successful [on that server]".

I was going to question some of your other cards but after checking them they all say "If successful, instead of accessing cards, ..." which is exactly how Exploratory Romp is worded.

This is weird. Then again I wouldn't be surprised if we got completely different rulings for certain cards even though they have the same wording.
 
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John O'Brien
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Kind of makes sense, otherwise:

- Singularity on remote
- Copycat to R&D
- Profit

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cassidy zimmerman
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I'm surprised that Exploratory Romp would be ruled that way, but Singularity would be an easy correction by errataing Singularity to be "all installed cards in the server" rather than "all cards in the server" as the cards comprising R&D or HQ aren't installed.

On the other hand, if the Corp can have a janky combo that creates an auto win, shouldn't the runner as well? More ice selection will make Copycat far more brittle. With each passing pack it makes it easier to have a completely unique ice combination with no repeats, or you simply have no ice double up from R&D to any remote serve.
 
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Steven Tu
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strayjohno wrote:
Kind of makes sense, otherwise:

- Singularity on remote
- Copycat to R&D
- Profit



THAT WOULD BE WONDERFUL I LOVE IT SO MUCH but unfortunately it wouldn't work because it needs to end on a remote
 
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Brodie
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Actually that makes sense to me. In Step 1 of the run you declare the attacked server. Exploratory Romp says "Make a run. If successful, instead of accessing cards, remove up to 3 advancement tokens from a single card in or protecting the attacked server." - emphasis mine. Romp doesn't seem to care where you end up, just where you started from. It's the only one of those cards whose text explicitly refers to "the attacked server."

...interestingly, Cell Portal's subroutine also references "the attacked server." If you get Cell Portaled after a Deflect effect, would Cell Portal return you to the server you originally attacked?
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Agent Archer wrote:
the attacked server." - emphasis mine.


Ah, good call! I think that does explain it.
 
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Ben Finkel
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More from Lukas:

Lukas wrote:
If a card ability refers to making a run on a specific server, then you must make a successful run on that server. Demolition Run only works on the server the Runner attacked, even if it moves to the other of HQ/R&D. Sneakdoor Beta, The Maker's Eye, Indexing, Account Siphon, etc. do not work if you are redirected. Hope that helps,

Lukas Litzsinger


Yeah, makes sense. The Demolition Run bit was a little surprising, too, though; if you get shunted from HQ to R&D, you can't free-trash cards with it.
 
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Ian Hall

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I don't have an e-mail to this effect, as I asked Lukas during Plugged in, but with regards to Account Siphon "If Successful,..." means if the run on HQ is successful, not if the run is successful. So Bullfrog is actually a legitimate anti-Siphon defence.
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Daniel D
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Looks like Dirty Laundry should work if you get moved too. And something like Pheromones could partially work (getting moved to/from HQ)?
 
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Ben Finkel
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Dovian wrote:
Looks like Dirty Laundry should work if you get moved too. And something like Pheromones could partially work (getting moved to/from HQ)?


I didn't ask about the cards that were worded more clearly. Dirty Laundry definitely pays out if the run it makes is successful, no matter where it's pointed; Pheromones lets you spend its money while you're running HQ, and it gets a counter if you end up successfully running HQ (i.e. via Sneakdoor).
 
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mplain
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So if there is an agenda fort protected by Susanoo No Mikoto (the new unique ice from Honor & Profit) and the runner plays Singularity on that server, jumps to Archives into a deadly trap of 3 Shocks, then instead of accessing he can choose to trash all contents of the agenda fort? wow
 
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Ben Finkel
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mplain wrote:
So if there is an agenda fort protected by Susanoo No Mikoto (the new unique ice from Honor & Profit) and the runner plays Singularity on that server, jumps to Archives into a deadly trap of 3 Shocks, then instead of accessing he can choose to trash all contents of the agenda fort? wow


Depending on what Susanoo no Mikoto actually does (I'm not too confident in our ability to parse occluded and blurry text), I actually think this won't work. As Lukas mentioned with respect to Account Siphon etc., cards that make you run on a specific type of server care that you hit that type of server. Assuming Susanoo no Mikoto dumps you to Archives, I don't think you can trigger the "instead of access" because you didn't hit a remote server.
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Benny And The
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If you play singularity on remote server A but then get bullfrogged to remote server B and are successful, can you now trash everything in remote server A?

EDIT: based on the demolition run ruling I would guess that this doesn't work. But its not exactly the same.
 
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Ben Finkel
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Jets wrote:
If you play singularity on remote server A but then get bullfrogged to remote server B and are successful, can you now trash everything in remote server A?


I'm afraid the answer to that will probably have to wait 'till Double Time comes out. I tentatively think the answer is yes, drawing a parallel with Exploratory Romp's resolution.

However, Exploratory Romp specifically calls out the "attacked server", whereas Singularity simply discusses "the server". That might throw things for a loop.
 
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It's funny to me that all this confusion is caused by Bullfrog, a card that you almost never see anyway.
 
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Matthew Guze
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DrTall wrote:
It's funny to me that all this confusion is caused by Bullfrog, a card that you almost never see anyway.


It's not just Bullfrog anymore. There's Copycat, and it seems like Jinteki's getting a piece of ice in H&P that will redirect the runner to Archives. This might matter more in the future.
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Derrick Billings
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DrTall wrote:
It's funny to me that all this confusion is caused by Bullfrog, a card that you almost never see anyway.


And Exploratory Romp, ditto.
 
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Benny And The
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Azeltir wrote:
Jets wrote:
If you play singularity on remote server A but then get bullfrogged to remote server B and are successful, can you now trash everything in remote server A?


I'm afraid the answer to that will probably have to wait 'till Double Time comes out. I tentatively think the answer is yes, drawing a parallel with Exploratory Romp's resolution.

However, Exploratory Romp specifically calls out the "attacked server", whereas Singularity simply discusses "the server". That might throw things for a loop.


Haha this is a good point. The answer could seriously be trash all of server A or server B or you can't use singularity's ability at all after deflecting. The madness!
 
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