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Subject: No more Mister Nice Guy :-) rss

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Ken B.
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Why would *anyone* think that Rahdo would spend extensive time doing these runthroughs on games he obviously considers crap? If he is at all inclined to do a walkthrough, it means it's a game he's probably going to enjoy, or feel that he will.

So it's selection bias. And a natural one at that.

There's plenty of room for folks who want to do video uploads of games they loathe--feel free. After you've spent that tenth hour editing your review on a game you obviously hate, you're going to start rethinking which games you choose to do this for.
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Jer Wolfe
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Ken,

Not really. Since Richard did the KS he has had to do games his backers want and I know some of the ones done during this year had a few "crap" titles.
But because Richard is who Richard says he is, he does them because he said he would, he appreciates the backer support.
I even remember him saying that some game was not his type of game and is only reviewing it because it was requested by a backer.
Of course I can't rem which game but it was after the KS... Lol


Richard,

Bottom line I don't watch your runthroughs for how to play or what to buy.
I watch them for the ever growing hobby of yelling at my TV that you forgot to pay for Jen's worker... Lol!
Oh and boardgame pronwhistle

In all seriousness I enjoy just watching your videos and hope you do a lot more games that I would have never have looked at, because sometimes you surprise me.

As ever a voyeur,
Jer
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Andy Andersen
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Wolfe13 wrote:

In all seriousness I enjoy just watching your videos and hope you do a lot more that I would never have looked at, because sometimes you surprise me.

As ever a voyeur,
Jer


I look at it this way

1. Watch a Rahdo run through and learn/enjoy something
2. Watch TV and want to pull my hair out/kill myself.

No brainer
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Michael König
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rahdo wrote:
I don't do reviews, I do runthroughs.


And it's well that you don't. There are probably more than enough reviewers already. The advantage of your runthroughs is that I get the chance to make up my own mind if I might like the game or not. That's not possible in a review, because everything is clouded in the subjective opinion of the reviewer.
Sure, sometimes one can tell if you are more enthusiastic about a game, but I believe you always try to present a game in an objective way as possible. Since you don't generally telecast your opinion until your final thoughts video, you almost exclusively let the game "talk" for itself, and that's what's missing from a review.

Quote:
I've said it 1000 times now... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE ignore my opinions about the games. Draw your own conclusions from watching the game being played


I will always try to draw my own conclusions about a game, and with your format that's more possible than with a review.
But sometimes I skip to your final thoughts (especially when a game just doesn't seem to grip me in the first minutes) to see if I'm missing something. Sometimes your final thoughts push me into watching the previous videos again, so the game might get a second chance that way. But in the end my decision if I like the game or not rests on the presented gameplay.
But just for that second chance and for the insight into other play throughs you did with Jen, I hope you are keeping the final thoughts. Also it's nice to see you in the end and not just have a disembodied voice all the time.

Quote:
Yes I do get some copies of games from publishers for running through.


And I think that just shows that more publishers start to recognize what a great service you are providing. I have absolutely no problem with that exactly for the reason that you aren't doing a review and getting free copies of games doesn't affect you the way it might a reviewer.
Sure, you might be grateful and want to present the game in the best possible way. But apart from the fact that I believe you already try to do that with every game, no matter if you got it for free or paid for it, your runthroughs just couldn't conceal bad rules or gameplay that just isn't fun.
As soon as you let the game "speak" for itself any bias (be it positive or negative) you might have towards it goes out the window.

Quote:
If that's still not enough, here's a list of every runthrough I've done where, in the final thoughts, I explained why the game wasn't for me and Jen


And now comes the ultimate proof that your opinion in the end doesn't really count (for me):
You've sold me Caylus despite the fact that you said it isn't for you and Jen. How does that work? Well, I've read several reviews and combined with the average weight rating on BGG I thought that Caylus must be a pretty complicated game. But your runthrough showed me that the mechanisms are actually fairly basic and the weight comes from the decisions the player has to make, which is fine with me. Unfortunately your video also demonstrated that the board is really ugly (for me, others might have a different opinion) so I had to get the limited premium edition instead...

Your final thoughts are probably useful to people who have the same taste in games as you have (two player strategy games with hardly any conflict), for me they are primarily entertaining (let's face it, you're an entertaining guy) and every now end then they lead to the second chance mentioned above.

Quote:
I don't want to spend my time doing runthroughs for games I don't like.


And that's very well. I don't want you to torture yourself with a game you don't like just to make a video I'd probably stop watching after a few minutes.
It might be entertaining to read/see the scathing review of a really bad movie (just to pick an example from a different field), but it certainly isn't to watch said movie in its full. Since you don't do reviews but runthroughs it would be just like watching you play most of a bad game, and that just isn't fun, for neither of us. (I hope there aren't too many masochistic Rahdo fans...)

Long story short (seems to be a theme for my postings on this forum),
I get that you're not doing reviews, which is why I never call your videos "reviews", and I hope that most of your viewers get it too.
I do like your final thoughts, but they don't influence me decision to buy a game, just my willingness to give the game another shot if I didn't like it on first viewing.

Keep up the great work, as long as you have fun doing it!
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Michael König
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tormentin wrote:
As funny as it sounds, Caverna was one of the few ones i watched.
And i STRONGLY disagree with Richard on that one


I do understand Richard's reasoning why he still prefers Agricola. There he gets a bunch of cards and can plan his strategy with them.
In Caverna everything is out there from the beginning and available to all players. It's unlikely that you will end up with the strategy you hope to get, because other players might snatch up a building you really needed (unless you're playing solo).

But understanding doesn't necessarily mean agreeing. I also think that I'd probably like Caverna more than Agricola.
But that shows again how powerful Richard's format is:
Through the runthrough I was thinking, hey Caverna is so much cooler than Agricola, I might actually buy it (while I have no interest in buying Agricola). And then Richard suddenly tells us that he still prefers Agricola.

Who's wrong? Nobody! If you like it despite what Richard says in the final thoughts it's just proof that you made up your own mind about the game in a way a review couldn't ever do. And if Richard doesn't like it although you do (or the other way round) that just demonstrates difference in taste.
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Marcus Boyce
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KingOfPain wrote:
[q="tormentin"]
But that shows again how powerful Richard's format is:
Through the runthrough I was thinking, hey Caverna is so much cooler than Agricola, I might actually buy it (while I have no interest in buying Agricola). And then Richard suddenly tells us that he still prefers Agricola.


Remove the "Cult of the new" and I think Caverna doesn't have the staying power of Agriocla (mostly because all the tiles are out from the start) but it's probably a better game for most people.

Agriocla is like Marmite. Love it or hate it I've got Caverna at the top of my current top 20 games and Agricola at around 15. I bet they both end up somewhere in the middle.

Now if Uwe would use the streamlining of the rules seen in Caverna to make a new Agricola, well now we'd be talking.
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Richard Ham
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lordsplodge wrote:
Now if Uwe would use the streamlining of the rules seen in Caverna to make a new Agricola, well now we'd be talking.

I have been seriously thinking about adopting Caverna's "only 1 point per family member" end score rule. I really like how that one super simple change makes it suddenly a much more viable option to not chase after a full family of 5...
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Marcus Boyce
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rahdo wrote:
lordsplodge wrote:
Now if Uwe would use the streamlining of the rules seen in Caverna to make a new Agricola, well now we'd be talking.

I have been seriously thinking about adopting Caverna's "only 1 point per family member" end score rule. I really like how that one super simple change makes it suddenly a much more viable option to not chase after a full family of 5...


Do it. See how it changes things.
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Bryan McNeely
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Seasons doesn't work for me either. Traded my copy for the Farmers of the Moor Agricola expansion. (would have also accepted a tasty muffin for it)
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Neil Blaiberg
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Wolfe13 wrote:

I even remember him saying that some game was not his type of game and is only reviewing it because it was requested by a backer.
Of course I can't rem which game but it was after the KS... Lol




May not be the one you're thinking of, but High Frontier fell into this category.
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Jer Wolfe
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TheRiddler1976 wrote:
Wolfe13 wrote:

I even remember him saying that some game was not his type of game and is only reviewing it because it was requested by a backer.
Of course I can't rem which game but it was after the KS... Lol




May not be the one you're thinking of, but High Frontier fell into this category.

No that wasn't it but the gist is all the same... Richard is a very descent fellow and appreciate his backers, even with "odd" requests, like High Frontier.. Lol
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Richard Ham
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Wolfe13 wrote:
TheRiddler1976 wrote:
Wolfe13 wrote:

I even remember him saying that some game was not his type of game and is only reviewing it because it was requested by a backer.
Of course I can't rem which game but it was after the KS... Lol




May not be the one you're thinking of, but High Frontier fell into this category.

No that wasn't it but the gist is all the same... Richard is a very descent fellow and appreciate his backers, even with "odd" requests, like High Frontier.. Lol


Well, over the last year, there's a bunch of games that I did runthroughs for only because of backer requests...

Some, I might have done eventually anyway:
Rapa Nui
Gates of Loyang
Fresco
Kolejka
Navegador
Ora et Labora
Pergamon
Spellbound
Runebound
London
Race for the Galaxy
Olympos
Puerto Rico

And many others I would very likely have never attempted:
Shipyard
Archipelago
Arctic Scavengers
Terra Mystica
Belfort
Manhattan Project
Middle Earth Quest
Seasons
Stronghold
Brass
Antiquity
Key Market
Through the Ages
Caylus
Dungeon Lords
Mage Knight the Board Game
Fury of Dracula
Love Letter
Piwne Imperium
High Frontier
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Steven Szymanski
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Richard,
Of those you would not have attempted w/o prompting, did any get added to your permenant collection?

I see some that you said in the review you already had, and some you said we're not keepers. Any that your backers suggested that surprised you as good enough to stay in your collection?
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Richard Ham
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Of the games that we didn't own in that list and got because of backers, the one surprise keeper turned out to be Manhattan Project
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Jer Wolfe
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Richard,

It was Mage Knight and you were doing it from someone else's house.

Mystery solved.

back to your Game collection part II... arrrh
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Jennifer Derrick
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Funny, everyone's saying they don't watch the final thoughts, or don't care what they say, but I always watch the final thoughts first because I know (with 95% certainty) that if he says it's not for Jen and him then it won't be for us, either.

I still watch the playthrough just to make sure (and heck, it's better than the crap on TV, even if the game isn't for us), but most of the time the final thoughts are spot on for us.

I just love the enthusiasm you show for playing a game. Even if the game ultimately isn't your thing, you still look like you had fun trying it and that you gave it your best shot to make it work for you (like your review of Dungeon Lords where you said you'd bought and traded it a couple of times because you wanted to like it so badly). You always look like you're enjoying the experience and the chance to try something new.

Too many reviewers and gamers can't just enjoy anything for what it is. They're too busy tearing it apart and acting like some games are just beneath them to just enjoy things. The whole point of gaming it to play and if you can't enjoy that, then why bother? No one says you have to play everything over and over again or love everything you play, but you can at least try to enjoy the experience and appreciate that while it might not be your thing, that doesn't mean that someone else won't love it.

That's what I love about you. It seems to be about the game and the play time/time with Jen and not what the game says (or doesn't say) about you.



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OxfordRow wrote:
Funny, everyone's saying they don't watch the final thoughts, or don't care what they say, but I always watch the final thoughts first...


Same here. If it's a game I know nothing about, or am only marginally interested in, I watch Rahdo's final thoughts first.

With all other games, I *always* watch his final thoughts. I think Rahdo's "review" at the end is one of the best of all video bloggers.
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Eric Dousay
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Richard,

I only discovered the videos a couple of months ago and have already watched quite a few of them. I'll just add another strong "keep up the good work!" Love the run-throughs. Even when it wasn't a game that was a fit for you and a keeper, I've found the videos extremely useful in my own purchase decisions. And you're explanations of why it wasn't a pick for you, or any critiques of the game play itself, always seem fair and honest. That plus good coverage of the game system is just what I need when considering a new game.

Case in point, Robinson Crusoe was a great run-through of game play and components and the final thoughts were an honest appraisal - even though it wasn't a fit for you personally. BUT based on the run-through I picked up a copy two or three weeks ago and we've been having a blast playing it.

So keep up the good work - even on the ones that sometimes don't quite fit for you.


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Guillaume
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I don't understand why someone would want to watch a runthrough of a game Rahdo does not like. I'm perfectly fine with the way Rahdo chooses and "runthroughs" his boardgames.

Honestly, I think the less interesting videos are the ones of games chosen by backers which Rahdo did not particularly enjoy. We can make our own decisions whether we will like a game or not by watching the runthrough.

I do enjoy the final thoughts because it gives insight on things that do not show up by watching a runthrough. For example, I like to know when a game is too confrontational.

Edit: Having said that I still want to see runthrough of games you had high hopes, but did not enjoy.
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Karsten
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Alright, let me apologize here for writing "you only do positive reviews" before. What I maybe should have written is "your enthusiasm is catching on quite often" instead. Anyways, your videos are the most interesting to me especially because of the focus on 2-player playability. Keep it up!
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kelendil wrote:
I don't understand why someone would want to watch a runthrough of a game Rahdo does not like. I'm perfectly fine with the way Rahdo chooses and "runthroughs" his boardgames.

Honestly, I think the less interesting videos are the ones of games chosen by backers which Rahdo did not particularly enjoy. We can make our own decisions whether we will like a game or not by watching the runthrough.

You seem to be contradicting yourself. How are we supposed to "make our own decisions [...] by watching the runthrough" if Rahdo doesn't like the game and chooses not to do a runthrough?

Case in point: Terra Mystica. I wouldn't own Terra Mystica today if it weren't for Rahdo's runthrough, but he probably wouldn't have done a runthrough for it if it hadn't been selected for him by backers.

I guess my point is that there's plenty of value in a runthrough for a game even if Richard and Jen don't personally like the game.
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Guillaume
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That was not very clear. My train of thought was that he does not need to review or do a runthrough of games he did not enjoy because if he posts 100 videos of games he likes in a year, that's more than enough for me. Of all these, there will be some I personally like and some I don't. I also can decide if they are for me with the runthrough only.

But you're right, there is value in seeing runthroughs of other games. However, time being a constraint for making those videos, I'd rather see videos of games he enjoyed more.
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Michael Weber
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Rahdo,

you made me buy games I would never have cosidered, you and Jen explained them to me, I had loads of fun watching your videos plus

EACH AND EVERY GAME I BOUGHT DUE TO YOUR VIDEOS WAS AWESOME!

Thanks a lot. Mind you, you also recommend games that I do not like that much, but guess that I am grown up and after watching your playthroughs I have a wonderful basis for my decision whether or not this game is for me. Your videos make me "feel" the game while most of the other reviewers just explain mechanics to me.

Keep those videos coming even at a 100% positive videos only rate!
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First thing, hope all this makes sense - I do ramble a bit.

But let me say I truly enjoy your show.
I like the run throughs for giving a great inside into the games and the final thoughts because whether you like it or not your opinion does matter. Like how does it play the second time, what does Jen think and etc.
It has cost me quite a bit following you videos, btw

rahdo wrote:

Also, in closing, for each and every one of those runthroughs I just listed, I'd again STRONGLY recommend you ignore my opinion, and let the games speak for themselves... otherwise, why am I bothering to do the runthrough in the first place?

I find this a odd thing to say. We should ignore your opinion or else the run throughs are a wast of time? But if we should ignore your opinion that much, why do you do final thoughts? I value your final thoughts and don't want them to go away or the run throughs.

About you being a Mr. Nice guy. I don't see you as a Mr. nice guy when you "dislike" a game - like Caverna, Mice and Mystics etc.
My small "issue" is that games you like, you really like - and I find it difficult to figure out which you like most.
E.g. Praetor, watching the run through and hearing the final thoughts - I thought this would be high on your list, but it's quite far down and has a semi okay rating (granted the rating system here is a bit odd). Which makes me wonder where other games end up. E.g. Copper Country and Progress. You sound really happy about them, but I end up wondering where they end up on your list.

So I guess I have to figure out and understand your positive final thoughts and comments during gameplay.

Hope this made sense in some way or form
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Richard Ham
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Kega wrote:
rahdo wrote:

Also, in closing, for each and every one of those runthroughs I just listed, I'd again STRONGLY recommend you ignore my opinion, and let the games speak for themselves... otherwise, why am I bothering to do the runthrough in the first place?

I find this a odd thing to say. We should ignore your opinion or else the run throughs are a wast of time? But if we should ignore your opinion that much, why do you do final thoughts? I value your final thoughts and don't want them to go away or the run throughs.

That was directed towards folks who simply watch my final thoughts, and decide on whether they should get the game based only on that, rather than on watching the runthrough and deciding for themselves whether they'd enjoy the game.

Honestly, I'd be happy to not do final thoughts at all (like Rodney Smith, of Watch it Played), but I've got an established format now, so I feel like I should stick to it.

Quote:
About you being a Mr. Nice guy. I don't see you as a Mr. nice guy when you "dislike" a game - like Caverna, Mice and Mystics etc.
My small "issue" is that games you like, you really like - and I find it difficult to figure out which you like most.
E.g. Praetor, watching the run through and hearing the final thoughts - I thought this would be high on your list, but it's quite far down and has a semi okay rating (granted the rating system here is a bit odd). Which makes me wonder where other games end up. E.g. Copper Country and Progress. You sound really happy about them, but I end up wondering where they end up on your list.

So I guess I have to figure out and understand your positive final thoughts and comments during gameplay.


Well, I gave Praetor a 7, which means, according to the official BGG defintion, that it's a good game that I'd happily play most any time. And that's true. Also, I have it has a high 7, very close to an 8, which is "love it so much I'll always push it on others".

In short, for me,

5="not really a fan"
6="it's okay"
7="oooh, I'm really liking this"
8="OMG this is amazing, one of the best"
9="As close to perfection as possible"
10=I don't have anything rated a 10.

With that in mind, maybe you can see me giving something a 7 is pretty high praise? Basically, since I don't give anything a 10, you can basically consider my calling a game a 7 the equivalent of anyone else calling it an 8
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