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Subject: Reshuffle spell deck between rounds? rss

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Bob Peterson
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In the "End of Round" section of the rules, it says that all spell cards placed on the fighters during the round are placed in the discard pile, but it does not explicitly state that the discards are then reshuffled back into the Spell ddeck(in contrast to the fighter deck, which it does say to reshuffle).

However, in the Summary section, it says to "Reshuffle the Fighter & Spell Decks."

So are the discarded spells reshuffled back into the Spell Deck between rounds, or not?
 
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Christian K
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We didnt reshuffle the spell deck.
 
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Matt Pierce
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I didn't reshuffle either. seemed to work fine. If you ever run out of spell cards you can always reshuffle.
 
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Kent
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The rules imply that the entire Spell Deck should be reshuffled between rounds. This will increase randomness of the available spells. For less randomness, and more strategy, adopt a house rule to not reshuffle the spell deck until needed. Since each fight is a separate event, thematically it may make more sense to reshuffle the deck each round per the rules.
 
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Rich Moore
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On page 15 under end of round there is no mention of reshuffling the spell deck. Yet, the rules summary on page 20 explicitly states to reshuffle the spell deck in step 9. Seems oddly contradictory to me...why not mention in both places?
 
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Martin Gallo
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Actually not mentioning it in one rule and explicitly mentioning it in another is inconsistent rather than contradictory. It would be contradictory to state in one rule NOT to shuffle and then indicate that the deck is shuffled in another.

I say shuffle, and that is supported by the rules. It is likely that the shuffle was just left out of the summary.
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Rich Moore
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Inconsistent at the least...Was the exclusion of the rule in the main rules an oversight or was the inclusion of the rule in the summary an oversight? It is hard to believe it is the latter that is the case.
 
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Rich Moore
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Upon reflection, I really do think the two sections offer contradictory rules. In one, you discard your spells and don't reshuffle. In the other, you don't discard used cards, but instead reshuffle them into the deck. There is no clear way to decide which rule was the intented rule.

 
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Michael Frankovich
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martimer wrote:
Actually not mentioning it in one rule and explicitly mentioning it in another is inconsistent rather than contradictory. It would be contradictory to state in one rule NOT to shuffle and then indicate that the deck is shuffled in another.

I say shuffle, and that is supported by the rules. It is likely that the shuffle was just left out of the summary.


Actually, to be pedantic, I believe that inconsistency is a type of contradiction (a logical incongruity) and thus Rich was correct in his statement... but that's really not important in the grand scheme of things


I disagree with the premise that the rules support the idea that you should shuffle the cards and here's why:

1. "8 Draw Cards" happens before "9 End of Round" -- the rules are even explicit in saying "After cards are drawn, the round ends" at the start of the "End of Round" section.
2. The rules explicitly state "New cards are not drawn after the third (last) round" in the "Draw Cards" section.

What this means is that you would draw from the depleted deck after playing out the first round, as this happens before having the chance to shuffle the discarded spells into the deck (as per #1). If you assume you now need to shuffle, this shuffled deck would be drawn from after playing out the second round and this creates a weird dichotomy between the only two drawing phases in the game. Further, there's absolutely no reason to be explicit in the fact you don't draw cards (as per #2) unless you're concerned the deck may run out and are using this as a way to prevent/answer the question of "what do I do when the deck runs out?" (answer -- it can't!). In a 6 player game you'd at a minimum 66 cards (30 [set up] + 18 [round 1 draw] + 18 [round 2 draw]) and less than or equal to 72 at a maximum (I don't have a copy to look through right now, but I don't recall there being more than 6 of the "draw a card" support spells, which are the only way to go through the remaining 6 cards).

Granted the second reason could be considered more of a stretch, I think that the sequencing described by the first point is likely reason enough to not shuffle.
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Gillum the Stoor
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Here are the reasons that I think that you don't reshuffle the spell deck between rounds.

1. The main body of the rules don't mention that. As has been pointed out, its says that, after you shuffle the fighter deck, you put used spells in the discard pile. This would have been the point at which to say that the discard pile should be reshuffled.

2. While the summary at the end of the AEG rules does say "Reshuffle the Fighter & Spell Decks," the same section from the rules posted years before the AEG version (which I assume is a translation of the original Japanese) says the following
Quote:
The fighters are returned to the fighter draw pile, which is reshuffled. All spells placed on the fighters are placed on the discard pile. The judge for the previous round is also discarded and is out of the game.
It is true that this might have been one of the changes that came with the AEG re-release. But I think that, if this were the case, the rule change would have been documented in a more obvious way.

3. As was pointed out, the number of spell cards (72) is almost perfectly suited to game play with no reshuffling. With 6 players (the configuration that uses the most cards), 30 cards are dealt initially. Players could draw at most 18 more cards after each of the first two rounds. The two Recall spells let players draw 2 more cards. Ferine's judgement causes 1 more card to be drawn. 30 + 18 + 18 + 2 + 1 = 69, which is pretty close to the 72 supplied.
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