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Subject: Judge strikes down Utah same-sex marriage ban rss

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I commend the judge and disparage all this law's supporters. Because the only reason anyone would oppose gay marriage is because their hearts were filled with hate and bigotry. There is no other possible reason a rational, intelligent, thinking person would oppose it. This issue is absolutely without question solely a question of civil rights; no other valid considerations or mitigating factors are even possible. Absolutely no other reason besides hate and bigotry that anyone would ever be against gay marriage. None. Nada. Zilch. I repea-

NOTICE:
THE FEDERAL COURT HAS RULED THAT THE SARCASM IN THIS POST IS HATE-SPEECH AND IS THEREFORE UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
PS. RSP'ERS, HAVE AT IT.
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Kolob Jesus is going to be pissed!
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Drew1365 wrote:
tesuji wrote:
Because the only reason anyone would oppose gay marriage is because their hearts were filled with hate and bigotry.


Really? That's the only reason?


Well, that may be over stating it.

Probably more like half full of hate and bigotry. The other half is poison and surprisingly...marzipan.
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As someone living in Utah when East High in SLC started their first gay & lesbian club in 1995, I'm astonished. And delighted. I also wonder what crazy stunt the state legislature is going to try to get around the ruling. Back in 1995, the only way it decided it could close down the Gay-Straight Alliance at East High was to ban all non-curricular school clubs, as decided in an illegal closed-door session.
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J
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Drew1365 wrote:
tesuji wrote:
Because the only reason anyone would oppose gay marriage is because their hearts were filled with hate and bigotry.


Really? That's the only reason?

You need to read more carefully.
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Chad Ellis
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Drew1365 wrote:
tesuji wrote:
Because the only reason anyone would oppose gay marriage is because their hearts were filled with hate and bigotry.


Really? That's the only reason?


Drew, you might want to turn on your sarcometer. Tesuji thinks that gay marriage is a mockery and that gay sex is wrong. Fortunately, he doesn't think this out of any sort of hate or bigotry.
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Josh
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Maybe he's just jealous?
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Chad Ellis
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bjlillo wrote:
So does Utah have any Constitutional marriage laws? Their anti-polygamy law just got struck down. This one goes down like Chad after two mojitos.* What else is left?

*Don't I wish.


BJ, I'm betting that font size is the only thing small about you.
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William Boykin
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Get a room you two.

Next thing you know, you'll both put on some pajamas, get some cocoa, and start talking about what Health Care plan is most affordable for you.

Sheezus.

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Kelsey Rinella
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Altair IV wrote:
The other half is poison and surprisingly...marzipan.


…but you repeat yourself.
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robigo wrote:
As someone living in Utah when East High in SLC started their first gay & lesbian club in 1995, I'm astonished. And delighted. I also wonder what crazy stunt the state legislature is going to try to get around the ruling. Back in 1995, the only way it decided it could close down the Gay-Straight Alliance at East High was to ban all non-curricular school clubs, as decided in an illegal closed-door session.


I totally forgot about that! That was the year I moved here to Utah from California and thought the choice to stop all clubs was VERY extreme.

As for the judges ruling, I'm ok with it. I think that the government shouldn't enact any law that takes away the rights of others.

As far as I see it, the same excuses that are being given as to why gays shouldn't be married are the same excuses that were being given as to why blacks and whites shouldn't be married.

I just don't care what people do with their lives. If they aren't hurting anyone else, do whatever. I have too many problems myself to be concerned about telling others how they should live their lives.
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Junior McSpiffy
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Yeah, local talk radio has been a hoot today. People calling in with all sorts of fallacies and bad arguments.

My wife and I were talking about it, and the way I see it, it's my job to teach and enforce my values with my daughter, not the government. Just because I believe God intends marriage to be for one man and one woman does not mean I believe it is the job of a non-theocratic government to enforce that for me.

I believe drinking and smoking are sins. I don't see people here getting riled up about the fact that liquor is sold.

Like I said, I believe gay marriage is not endorsed by God, but it's something that I can't control. The only thing I can control is how I react to God's edict to love my fellow man. I'll be judged for my sins, others will be judged for theirs, but I am not called upon to make people's lives harder just because their sins are more visible than mine.
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GameCrossing wrote:
Yeah, local talk radio has been a hoot today. People calling in with all sorts of fallacies and bad arguments.

My wife and I were talking about it, and the way I see it, it's my job to teach and enforce my values with my daughter, not the government. Just because I believe God intends marriage to be for one man and one woman does not mean I believe it is the job of a non-theocratic government to enforce that for me.

I believe drinking and smoking are sins. I don't see people here getting riled up about the fact that liquor is sold.

Like I said, I believe gay marriage is not endorsed by God, but it's something that I can't control. The only thing I can control is how I react to God's edict to love my fellow man. I'll be judged for my sins, others will be judged for theirs, but I am not called upon to make people's lives harder just because their sins are more visible than mine.


You should be thankful you don't have a reality program on A&E network. Cause if you did and they read your post they'd call up GLAAD, the LGBTQRT Alliance, Code Pink and that guy in plaid pajamas and apologize for your hate speech, reinforce that they will not tolerate intolerance and suspend you from your own show... and also sentence you to an interview with Martin Bashir where he poops in your mouth and then you'll get a punch in the forehead from that faggot-hater Alec Baldwin.
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Serious question here. Obviously tesuji's post was sarcastic, but we all know people who use that sort of rhetoric. Gay marriage is often held to be a civil rights issue. Personally I don't believe that marriage is a human right, so this idea isn't particularly convincing to me. I would be interested in hearing from someone who disagrees with me in what sense marriage is a right.

I suppose that in the spirit of full disclosure I ought to share that I take a more limited view of rights than most people- I don't believe that things which require others to give them to you are rights, with the single exception of a defense lawyer in a criminal case. Thus, I disagree with those who count food, housing, or healthcare among the human rights, for example. Perhaps a word ought to be invented for things which are good to have that we are nonetheless not entitled to. Whatever the name of that category, I would place marriage in it. And of course, all rights are ultimately rooted in the inherent worth that I believe all human beings have, and which itself is more important than any enumerated rights.

Personally I think we got on the wrong track when we let the government start issuing marriage licenses at all, but anyway. The above is a brief summary of my view; I would like to hear the thinking of someone who disagrees.
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twomillionbucks wrote:
Serious question here. Obviously tesuji's post was sarcastic, but we all know people who use that sort of rhetoric. Gay marriage is often held to be a civil rights issue. Personally I don't believe that marriage is a human right, so this idea isn't particularly convincing to me. I would be interested in hearing from someone who disagrees with me in what sense marriage is a right.

I suppose that in the spirit of full disclosure I ought to share that I take a more limited view of rights than most people- I don't believe that things which require others to give them to you are rights, with the single exception of a defense lawyer in a criminal case. Thus, I disagree with those who count food, housing, or healthcare among the human rights, for example. Perhaps a word ought to be invented for things which are good to have that we are nonetheless not entitled to. Whatever the name of that category, I would place marriage in it. And of course, all rights are ultimately rooted in the inherent worth that I believe all human beings have, and which itself is more important than any enumerated rights.

Personally I think we got on the wrong track when we let the government start issuing marriage licenses at all, but anyway. The above is a brief summary of my view; I would like to hear the thinking of someone who disagrees.


I don't disagree but I'd go further with it. There's no reason to think that people are entitled to anything, so in that sense there are no "rights" outside of whatever some legal body has decided to implement and enforce as a right. With that model it's extremely easy to accept something like the "right to marry who you want" as being a reasonable legal endeavor.

You seem to think that there are things which are inherent rights, things which people truly are entitled to have or exercise. What are those things, what gives meaning to those things, what does it mean to be entitled to those things and what leads you to believe you answers to those questions?
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Marriages pose many legal issues, for example in the case of inheritance or the gift tax in the USA.

But personally I would get rid of all these exemptions and let them only apply to children and their parents (legal parents, not necessarily biological parents; with adoption only possible as long as the person to be adopted is younger than 18). Married couples without children should not be granted any benefits, because what's the point? I fully support giving parents certain legal privileges for the sake of raising their children, but a childless couple should be treated just the same legally as any other two people.

My point of view on gay marriage is who gives a shit? If you feel somehow affected by other people marrying, I think you should get help, honestly. I don't care if you think homosexuality is icky or sinful or whatever, that marriage is a private affair and doesn't affect you at all, so shut the hell up about it.
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Kelsey Rinella
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Does anyone know whether it's illegal for a clergy member to refuse to marry interracial couples?
 
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Melface McPuggins
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rinelk wrote:
Does anyone know whether it's illegal for a clergy member to refuse to marry interracial couples?


I can't find anything saying so, but I have a feeling that they could deny it if they really wanted to deal with the social backlash it would cause.

I should clarify that I mean I couldn't fine anything specific regarding the clergy and interracial marriage. Of course they'd probably still have to deal with things such as being accused of racial profiling.
 
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Philip Thomas
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Gay marriage is not the last taboo when it comes to marriage between consenting adults. There are still circumstances under which such marriage is forbidden. Maybe it shouldn't be, at that- how long is it before the judges start striking down prohibitions on incest?
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
tesuji wrote:
Because the only reason anyone would oppose gay marriage is because their hearts were filled with hate and bigotry.


Really? That's the only reason?


Drew, you might want to turn on your sarcometer. Tesuji thinks that gay marriage is a mockery and that gay sex is wrong. Fortunately, he doesn't think this out of any sort of hate or bigotry.
Thank god(?) that I am not alone in picking up the sarcasm, I thought I might have been mistaken.
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Boaty McBoatface
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twomillionbucks wrote:
Serious question here. Obviously tesuji's post was sarcastic, but we all know people who use that sort of rhetoric. Gay marriage is often held to be a civil rights issue. Personally I don't believe that marriage is a human right, so this idea isn't particularly convincing to me. I would be interested in hearing from someone who disagrees with me in what sense marriage is a right.

I suppose that in the spirit of full disclosure I ought to share that I take a more limited view of rights than most people- I don't believe that things which require others to give them to you are rights, with the single exception of a defense lawyer in a criminal case. Thus, I disagree with those who count food, housing, or healthcare among the human rights, for example. Perhaps a word ought to be invented for things which are good to have that we are nonetheless not entitled to. Whatever the name of that category, I would place marriage in it. And of course, all rights are ultimately rooted in the inherent worth that I believe all human beings have, and which itself is more important than any enumerated rights.

Personally I think we got on the wrong track when we let the government start issuing marriage licenses at all, but anyway. The above is a brief summary of my view; I would like to hear the thinking of someone who disagrees.
It's not marriage that is a right, it's the legal and financial protections that come with the (secular) institution. I wholly agree 'marriage' in a religious sense is not a right, and that 'religious marriages' should have no status in law.
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Simon Mueller wrote:
Marriages pose many legal issues, for example in the case of inheritance or the gift tax in the USA.

But personally I would get rid of all these exemptions and let them only apply to children and their parents (legal parents, not necessarily biological parents; with adoption only possible as long as the person to be adopted is younger than 18). Married couples without children should not be granted any benefits, because what's the point? I fully support giving parents certain legal privileges for the sake of raising their children, but a childless couple should be treated just the same legally as any other two people.

My point of view on gay marriage is who gives a shit? If you feel somehow affected by other people marrying, I think you should get help, honestly. I don't care if you think homosexuality is icky or sinful or whatever, that marriage is a private affair and doesn't affect you at all, so shut the hell up about it.


There are plenty of benefits which have nothing to do with dependents like seeing your spouse in the hospital.
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lfisher wrote:
There are plenty of benefits which have nothing to do with dependents like seeing your spouse in the hospital.

Yeah, personally I believe people should also be able to see their friends in the hospital, but that's just me.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Simon Mueller wrote:
lfisher wrote:
There are plenty of benefits which have nothing to do with dependents like seeing your spouse in the hospital.

Yeah, personally I believe people should also be able to see their friends in the hospital, but that's just me.
So you are saying that spouses should have no more rights then friends? Yep I can get on board with that, in fact I would go one step further and maybe susgest that marriage should have no legal status.
 
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