Sukunai Yori
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Probably the biggest problem I routinely experience, is how I might be totally into something based on volume, but, I never feel hardcore into something, as it seems I have a life, and thus am not able to pursue anything to the point it seems I talk about nothing else.

If anyone takes issue with the 'have a life' comment I will smack you.

The point is, if I chat about models on a model forum it won't be so dedicated like that I can instant respond to comments in a thread even if I started it.

Same goes with gaming, any gaming. I notice on role gaming forums, if you make a response, and don't respond to every post in the thread in connection to your remarks, you are branded a troll for saying something and not immediately defending it against all replies. Come on get a friggin life (is my feeling). I don't live on the damned forum let alone a thread, it's not real time either.

If anyone thinks that had to be a comment about BGG's forums I will smack you.

The smacks are mainly for the guys But I will smack a girl if she feels like she is being left out hehehe.

I love the hell out of my hobbies, but, I often wonder if I am seen as casual? Because I lack the fanatic level of devotion it seems some possess.

I will not pay for after market items to 'correct' my models. If it sucks out of the box, then the kit sucked and the company that makes it goes on notice. But I am NOT counting rivets.

I attach the same attitude to my games. If your game plays, and there are no game killing bugs that make it crash all the time, I am ok. If the game is a horrible mess of totally stupidly thought out design decisions, I might not want the expansions, or even play games of that sort in the future. But I am simply not going to research the hell out of the game, and whine that an armour factor on a specific vehicle wrecks the game balance. It seems half the patches to most computer wargame past 6 months after release are mainly driven by the inherently anal.

Board games, thankfully they take a LOT more effort to fiddle with, a game can't be just 'fixed' with a patch, as errata will not make the manual magically re print itself. Not that they are safe entirely. I play ASL and I have to wonder how much of that game was really needed to be fussed over since Squad Leader.

I love the heck out of my ASL, but, I am simply not going to be able to post on the forum that exists for it with any passion. It's just not THAT vital. I own the whole set, but I am ok it is the 1st edition. When I say whole set though, I am not saying I own everything with the logo on it. And I don't consider some parts 'core' enough to pay what is today effectively 4 times the price of what was once called a minor module. I took a pass on Axis Minor vehicles. Come on Hungarian bike troops?

But as a woman, it also comes out as another barrier, simply because if you don't go all hard core, well, you are not a real gamer, not a real geek, because well you are a woman, of course you are only a casual gamer.

No, I am simply not going to try and keep up with the boys in their geek magnitude just to reinforce my ability to be geek at all based on my gender.

I can be a total geek, and yet not a totally fixated fanatic just as with the boys that are allowed to be a complete geek, but not the guy that is clearly over the top with it.

Wish I had a wall of games, but, my walls are fought over by several other hobbies

I don't have 100 games on shelves, But I do have a complete set of ASL Annuals and I am IN one of them. I don't have a dozen role games on a shelf, but, I do have the Sailor Moon rpg. I don't have any models with oodles of resin and PE on them, but, I do have more models on my shelves than most will (I have no idea how many hundreds of kits to be honest). I have planes, trains, tanks, ships, trucks, cars, fantasy miniatures, anime figures, I have a limited edition Italeri calendar on the wall as well as a Haruhi Suzumiya cloth wall scroll and my father's 1950 steam engine photographs.

As a hobbyist, I am likely more geek than any routine super geek in some respects. I also have my tablesaw in the room behind me (makes a good table in the off season.

I have my Avon jewellery hanging in here, I also store baked goods in here. And there is of course my library.

I defy anyone to out geek my hobby room
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Trace
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Hi

I am not sure I understood what your post was really about, as all I took away from it was negativity. If that was NOT your intent then I am sorry and have missed something.

I cringed at the anti men sentiment-and I imagine the male followers of this forum (its NOT women only)would have too. I wanted to duck at the more than one mention of "slap you" - ouch.

Is there something here that triggered your tirade? I apologise if I am on the wrong track but I am unclear as to where you are coming from or going with this for that matter.
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Simon Tan
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If there is a lesson to take out of this, it is to not worry about the relative standards made by committee that make up the definitions of "casual" or "hardcore." The perceptions that are important are the perceptions of the people you love and care for; outside that world,... does it really matter what some strangers on the Internet or at a hobby shop think?

As for fanaticism and devotion, those things come at a cost (material, emotional, time-wise, relationship-wise, you get the idea...), and the one who can pay more is simply the one who can pay more. There is no necessity (or point, for that matter) in having the "hardcore" persecute those who are not.

With regards to the hobbies and the "geek" cred you have, are you happy and satisfied with it? When you know the answer to that question, then you know how you stand with yourself.
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Nate Walker
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Yeah, this post is pretty obnoxious.

Isn't Avon jewelry really crappy stuff?
(I don't know since I'm a male who apparently deserves to be slapped multiple times.)
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Sukunai Yori
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Hardly a 'rant' more just a complaint

I always seem to detect 'disdain' from the hardcore that I am not serious enough if I don't live and breath for the subject.

I have actually seen people actually comment that I didn't respond to replies on a thread I had initiated, and all because I posted in the morning and had the nerve to not get back to the thread till the next morning and everyone was in a snit that I said something and then failed to respond promptly.

Right now I am posting in between putting baking in the oven.

It's all about perception. I don't own any themed t-shirts. I hate T-shirts though. I don't own any toys based on the film. I've never been to a game con. Been to a few Anime North conventions but only because I had a ride.

I have never dressed as anyone from a comic or game.

So I always get the feeling I am just looked at as not even a geek let alone a serious one. And while a guy can show up to an event not dressed as a Star Wars or Star Trek person and not lose any cred, it always seems like I am immediately demoted to 'just there because I had to take someone else there' status.

Avon is not junk by the way. It doesn't need to be 300 bucks in gold and fine gems to look nice.

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Trace
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MMmmmmm I own and play games, I have teen boys that play video games, I have never once thought of geekiness to be a contest-neither does it bother me that others may be geekier than me. Whatever that means.

Posting a thread shouldnt come with time deadlines...I would ignore anyone ill mannered enough to comment as to when you reply. I am in Australia and its almost midnight, I post a lot all over BGG and never had a comment about a tardiness in replying...let it go and enjoy playing games.

Ironic really as there are other posts on BGG that lament the use of the word geek and would like the site to have a different name, and here you are worried that others dont see you as geeky enough... Be yourself, geek or not, enjoy your life.


PS- Avon is ok too!

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The problem with your post is that you end up reinforcing or creating more harmful ideas than those that annoy you.

Yeah, the idea of the "fake geek girl" or, well, the very idea of "not a true Scotsman" sucks. But going out of your way to "smack" people and specially men for "being anal" and "having no life" is every bit as terrible as that if not more.

Wallowing in the idea that geeks are this base-ment dweeling fat male white nerds doesn't help anyone.
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James
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Well, despite being a user of BGG for under three weeks at the time of this posting, you have over a hundred responses and have started eight threads. That seems like a lot of activity on the boards to me - a lot more than I had as a new user, at least.

I find the posters here to be very friendly a majority of the time. The only thing I see new users getting pounced on for is when they'll make absolute, sweeping claims about a game or the community without taking into account the experience others in the forum and site have had. I am not - at all - saying you have done this (I won't threaten slapping regardless!). I'm just saying that I think you'll like it here. Welcome!
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☆ ✧ ☆ ✧ ☆
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I'm afraid that if I comment in this thread I will get smacked.
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Great Googly Moogly it's
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frumpish wrote:
I'm afraid that if I comment in this thread I will get smacked.




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Amy
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Having been in the gaming community for a long time, I just think we all need to learn how to be kinder to each other. I think perhaps we all are a bit wounded. While "geeky" has recently been seen as being more hip, older geeks of both genders were too often ridiculed for their interests, especially in adolescence. Within the geek community men who look more like athletes and women (especially those pretty by societal standards), have gotten flack in the community itself as well.

I'd like everyone (men and women) to drop this notion that people have to somehow prove themselves to be a geek. We have room in geekdom for everyone. No one can be an expert on everything. Some will spend a lot of their time on one specific interest and become experts, while others freely move from one geeky pursuit to another. What makes us geeky is our passion for something and it is wonderful that we can share those passions with someone else excited about it as well, no matter their experience or knowledge level. Everyone has to start somewhere.

Maybe our wounds from being geeks make us more apt to be touchy and defensive? Those who were hurt, want to hurt others especially those with similar characteristics to the ones that hurt them? Some don't want to let others in their community that they fear will turn on them? In our own insecurities we've wrapped too much of our self worth into being geekier, more knowledgeable, more "hardcore" than others?

I do know that more forgiveness and empathy would do us all good. This also includes being kinder to ourselves. In my book, being a geek is a wonderful and exciting thing. We don't need to prove anything to each other or ourselves. The more the merrier!

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☆ ✧ ☆ ✧ ☆
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Looking at these stars suddenly dwarfed my own troubles and all the gravities of terrestrial life. I thought of their unfathomable distance, and the slow inevitable drift of their movements out of the unknown past into the unknown future. H.G. Wells
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It's not just among geeks that infighting can be devastating. Look at Sufi vs Shia vs Sunni in Islam. Or Catholic vs Protestant in Christianity. Or look at how music geeks treat each other for listening to the wrong band or artist.

People who take something seriously and are dedicated to it are much more likely than people who are casually interested to become defensive and sectarian about their interests.
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frumpish wrote:
People who take something seriously and are dedicated to it are much more likely than people who are casually interested to become defensive and sectarian about their interests.

Not so sure I share your point of view here. I've often noticed that the most aggressive behaviour doesn't come from those who know something best, but from those who are afraid of not knowing something deep enough to be able to defend their positions.

Having a deep and serious interest in something implies that something is very important for you, so that, I hope, and at least so it is for me, when someone ask, I try to help to have a common passion grow
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Clare Marie
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I'm sorry for whatever experiences compelled you to write this post Sukunai .. You really don't need to justify your interest in the hobby, keep up with anyone, or even be a 'geek' to be part of this community ..

This is a super friendly group of folk who've come together to share and chat about or enjoyment of games, and occasionally life in general (we do ALL have one) - So Welcome! meeple



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Sukunai Yori
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Not sure of this post is relevant to my thread.

I was just looking at a thread, on a game I love, and have, and wish it could be re printed....

And the more I looked at the thread, the more I realized 'holy crap, no wonder the game has not seen the light of day'. And it became clear, while I own and love the game, it is fairly apparent I have a first edition and yet I know nothing of where the game has gone (which appears to be the 9th level of hell).

Not pointing out the wargame, as a real wargamer likely can figure it out by my post here I have no desire to inflate the drama more than it seems to already suffer from.

Good grief, it's a frigging game, not the Constitution or the Charter.
Too bad too, a great game, it never needed to be re invented, or 'fixed' or mangled either. It just needed a few thousand more brand new copies on sale.

But clearly some people would appear to need a much clearer perspective on life when you consider what this poor game seems to have generated.

Oh well my worn out original version copy still plays ok.
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Matt Kruczek
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sunkencheerio wrote:
frumpish wrote:
I'm afraid that if I comment in this thread I will get smacked.





Those responsible for smacking the people who have just been smacked, have been smacked.

 
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Jennifer Derrick
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The irony here is that "geekiness" has become as cliquey as the "popular groups" that so many geeks tried to avoid or were excluded from in the first place. So now you're only a "good geek" if you fit some stereotype or adhere to some particular social conventions?

Think about that for a minute. And then ask yourself what's wrong with that picture. The geeks have become just as stuck up as the popular kids?

If this is the case, I'm going to have to go be something other than a geek, I guess, because I don't want to have to fall in with the popular crowd. Also, all of these "good geeks" are going to ruin it for the rest of us, just like the popular kids ruined high school.

No thanks.
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Ed Bradley
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There's always someone who is "more hardcore". So what?
There are always dicks on the internet. So what?
The problem lies with them not you. Youre happy with your gaming credentials? Cool.
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Sukunai Yori
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Nice post Sophie.

Yeah, it gets nutty when the very thing we had trouble being, is mutated into being the very thing we were denied in the first place.

Ok you say I am a geek, but you say I am not a geek because I am not geek enough....what? It gets to feel like a dog chasing a tail doesn't it

I've never been into sports, so it made me clash in my youth.

And not drinking, or smoking, or doing drugs, hell I wasn't even doing the whole teen sex thing, I never just 'hung out' I was not the sort to get into trouble with hooliganism. I just never meshed with anyone.

I likely can make the nerdiest of the nerdy feel somehow more 'ordinary' if given a moment

I suppose I have always been a book worm mostly. I'm the one buried in a book all the time. Used to kid people in high school.... there was a dollar in it for you if I was found to not have a book on me at all times.

I think today the problem is I have soooooo many interests, that I likely bounce from one to the next so much, that I never pursue any one thing long enough to seem too geek like about it.
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Trace
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Help me out here, I cant work out if you WANT to be labelled or you DONT want to be labelled.

Go ahead and label yourself if you want to, or not. Dont stress yourself out on what you think others are thinking of you, at the end of the day they will rarely lose sleep thinking about you.
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Sukunai Yori
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I get confused some days too Trace
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Kymmie Meeple
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I kind of know what you mean. I've always been to geeky for the norm but at the same time in geek circles I am closer to the norm.

I enjoy it!

I dont have to fit into any box! I am free to explore and learn as my interests shift. I find I learn more because I can be open to just letting people talk about their passions. I dont set up a barrier of competition as to who knows more and sometimes I come at things from angles other havent thought of even though it's their area of "Geekness".

I homeschool my kids, outta the norm and even with in that community I am slightly off the norm as we take more of a "Life Learning" approach... and yet even with in that sub-community we arent in the norm. We dive in and fade out... and return to various topics, concepts, ideas and hobbies. I think it's normal, how we naturally learn as humans, we have things that pull us away and sometime our interests change. I think also their is "BOREDOM" which I've discovered is really, I need something new! It's not that you don't have 101 things to do or that you've lost your passion in X... it's just you need to mix it up. I was raised with "if you are board then I have a list of chores for you" when really it should be "well, what should we explore next". We also have responsibility to fill before we can dive into our passions.

I love Upholstery and sewing. I have more power tools then most men on our street. I love DIY and I think women should empower themselves and be comfortable with wood working tools. Female friends and neighbors when I first meet them they are impressed, but I tell them they could do it to. That is met with oh no no.. but if I can get a tool in their diy project and power tool in their hand it's always the same..."WOW, that was easier then I thought".

I think the truth is in the "FREEING" of yourself...being vulnerable and honest with yourself and those around you about where you are at. Then you are free to move forward and really most people when they find someone else who loves their interest what ever it is... if they dont feel you put up that barrier... enjoy sharing their passions with others who feel the same passion and drive.

I only wish I'd learnt that in high school, college and university... but my mind was set to a different system of learning, one that for me growing up was painful. I always felt stupid because I didnt learn the same way other people did. Then I felt like I had to prove myself and boy did that get met with resistance. Once I learned to FREE my learning... that is when I discovered how much FUN learning... ANYTHING could be.

I still feel that I dont fit in most people's boxes of where they'd like to fit me... and sometimes it makes me feel uncomfortable... but really if they cant accept me for me... for where I am at in my GEEK... then really is it their loss or mine? Is it me or them who will suffer from not knowing me or at least trying to understand each other? That's what I ask myself when I feel those feelings stir.

Here is to Being True to your own GEEK whatever level it's at, in whatever area it is!!
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