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Subject: General Offensive and event cards for other factions rss

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Alastair Cornish
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Hi, played my first game of AA a couple of days ago (thanks for the help and advice on here!), really good fun, although after 6 hours we still hadn't reached the 3rd Prop card and had to call it a night and score as things stood, but I had more questions...

(I don't have the rules handy right now) somewhere in the rules or playbook I'm pretty sure I remember reading an example of an Event card which applies to a different faction still being selectable by you and the event still happening. e.g. If I'm FARC I can pick an event that allows the cartels to place some bases, the event still happens (despite not being FARC relevant) and the Cartels get to place... is that right?

Our real issue came from General Offensive which can apply to any faction / all factions... so the FARC took this card and, as stated, in all areas possible (basically EVERYWHERE) triggered fights, sweeps, assaults etc. etc. it was carnage across the board. Was that right, if not how should this card be played?

Oh and one more question some of the Govt capabilities (or limitations) say things like (paraphrasing) "Sweeps are limited to one area per card" this didn't make much sense since sweeps are normally an Operation not a card. We ruled that it just meant anytime the Govt does a sweep (whether a regular Operation or from a special Event card) it is limited to 1 area.

Thanks for any help
 
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Mike Owens
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tigermuppetcut wrote:
Hi, played my first game of AA a couple of days ago (thanks for the help and advice on here!), really good fun, although after 6 hours we still hadn't reached the 3rd Prop card and had to call it a night and score as things stood, but I had more questions...


Glad you enjoyed it!

Quote:
(I don't have the rules handy right now) somewhere in the rules or playbook I'm pretty sure I remember reading an example of an Event card which applies to a different faction still being selectable by you and the event still happening. e.g. If I'm FARC I can pick an event that allows the cartels to place some bases, the event still happens (despite not being FARC relevant) and the Cartels get to place... is that right?


Correct.

Quote:
Our real issue came from General Offensive which can apply to any faction / all factions... so the FARC took this card and, as stated, in all areas possible (basically EVERYWHERE) triggered fights, sweeps, assaults etc. etc. it was carnage across the board. Was that right, if not how should this card be played?


The card text says "In each space possible, choose and execute either free Sweep without movement or Assault (if Government), or free Attack or Terror (if Insurgent)." So yes, that should have happened basically everywhere. Subject, of course, to the rules of those operations; i.e., free Attack would still activate all Guerrillas in that space and you'd still have to roll a die to see if it was successful; and free Terror would still require an underground Guerrilla in the space to Activate.

Quote:
Oh and one more question some of the Govt capabilities (or limitations) say things like (paraphrasing) "Sweeps are limited to one area per card" this didn't make much sense since sweeps are normally an Operation not a card. We ruled that it just meant anytime the Govt does a sweep (whether a regular Operation or from a special Event card) it is limited to 1 area.


That is correct. My opinion is that the use of the word "card" is simple yet inclusive enough to cover sweeps enabled by operations, limited operations, and events.
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Alastair Cornish
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Thanks and for clarity the FARC player that chose to activate the General Offensive was (as per our understanding of events that relate to multiple factions) also causing Government sweeps, and AUC attacks etc.

And that is correct?

If you are one of those other factions being triggered by a different player/faction I guess there is no way to opt out, of course wherever there is choice (like how many cubes to commit to a sweep) I guess I could go with the minimum of 1 if I didn't want to move too many.
 
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Rob Davidson
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tigermuppetcut wrote:
Thanks and for clarity the FARC player that chose to activate the General Offensive was (as per our understanding of events that relate to multiple factions) also causing Government sweeps, and AUC attacks etc.

And that is correct?

If you are one of those other factions being triggered by a different player/faction I guess there is no way to opt out, of course wherever there is choice (like how many cubes to commit to a sweep) I guess I could go with the minimum of 1 if I didn't want to move too many.


I think you read more into the card than it's capability; pick one faction and it does the GenOffsve. Otherwise, it's ....like you described..chaotic. Generally, it's the active player that will choose their own faction, though in the right circumstance, I could see someone choosing to play this event on behalf of another for the right 'price'.
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Alastair Cornish
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Hmmm it's really hard to understand some of these cards, which ones you can do for other Factions, which ones affect all Factions and which one you pick a faction for

We went by the wording of the card (which doesn't talk about picking a faction) so when it said "In each space possible, choose and execute either free Sweep without movement or Assault (if Government), or free Attack or Terror (if Insurgent)."

Since it was possible to sweep into a certain dept. the FARC player was obliged to pick that dept and then the Govt conducted a sweep, then since there were AUC guerillas in another space capable of mounting an attack he was obliged to trigger that (since it was a space in which it was possible to cause an attack) and so on and so on across lots and lots of spaces.

Is there a good rule of thumb to follow here, to avoid confusion when the wording is unclear? I'm a novice so I don't know how many such confusing cards there are. E.g. could it be said:

"When an event is chosen the choosing player must select one faction to carry out the event, any activities the card allows are only carried out by that faction; if the event refers to capabilities or actions that apply to only one faction (e.g. Cartels place bases) then the faction in question MUST be chosen as the executing faction?"

If that bolded, suggested rule of thumb is correct then it makes life a whole lots easier when trying to understand how to use certain cards. Thoughts?
 
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Mike Owens
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I'm not sure how the rule of thumb differs from the rule as written (5.1) [EDIT: I understand how the ROT differs, just not sure why it should differ]

"5.1 Executing Events
When a Faction executes an Event, it carries out the Event text literally (sometimes involving actions or decisions by other Factions). Unless otherwise specified, the executing Faction makes all selections involved in implementing the text, such as which pieces are affected."

The implication from the rule is that with General Offensive, an executing Faction (for example, Cartels) could have Government execute a Sweep in space A, an Assault in space B, have the FARC execute an Attack in space C, and have AUC execute Terror in space D. And yes it could be completely chaotic, though the executing Faction could be judicious in selecting the spaces (or he could be clever in playing the other three factions against each other to give himself some breathing room).

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Alastair Cornish
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Hi Mike, that's basically how we played it (and thanks for quoting the 5.1 text there, that does clear it up, I'm sure we referenced that at the time but in retrospect (and while away from my books) it felt a bit crazy! hence me asking ) but there seemed to be some confusion in this thread for example Rob felt that was reading over-much into the card.

 
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Mike Owens
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I'll be honest, the way Rob stated was how I had also been interpreting the card. However, that interpretation appears to not be supported by the rules. Or, more accurately, that the rules allow the clever player even more latitude in how to implement the event than expected.

Thanks for the questions, they are helping me explore the rules even further!
 
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Volko Ruhnke
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My intent with "General Offensive" is that the executing Faction only is carrying out the Ops specified.

Many events specify a Faction, so whoever plays the Event, it's still the specified Faction that does whatever the card says. See, for example, "Narco-War", which specifies that Cartels executes the Terror, regardless of who played the event.

Other events allow the person playing it to select a Faction--perhaps itself, perhaps another--to take specified actions. See, for example "Ayahuasca Tourism" shaded, which allows you to select any Faction with Guerrillas to execute Terror and gain Resources.

In contrast, General Offensive is written in the imperative -- implied second person -- such as the sentence "Brush your teeth!", which is shorthand for "[You must] brush your teeth!".

So, to make the text of General Offensive into explicit second person, read it as: "In each space possible, [you must] choose and execute either free Sweep without movement or Assault (if [you are the] Government), or free Attack or Terror (if [you are an] Insurgent)."

I realize that my shorthand on the cards can be difficult at times. I was raised on the imperative "Omit needless words!", and it's hard to shake!

In any case, what the General Offensive event represents is the executing Faction launching a general offensive.

Best regards! Volko
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Alastair Cornish
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Thanks for clearing up that card Volko! I still have some slight confusion (in part due to the 5.1 section of your rules)

Quote:
Many events specify a Faction, so whoever plays the Event, it's still the specified Faction that does whatever the card says. See, for example, "Narco-War", which specifies that Cartels executes the Terror, regardless of who played the event.


Q1: If Narco War is selected by the player of FARC then it is clear that the Cartel faction carries out the event but which player decides how to carry it out (which spaces to target, which guerilla's to reveal etc.)? Is it the FARC player (who chose the card), which agrees with 5.1, or is it the Cartel player?

Quote:
Other events allow the person playing it to select a Faction--perhaps itself, perhaps another--to take specified actions. See, for example "Ayahuasca Tourism" shaded, which allows you to select any Faction with Guerrillas to execute Terror and gain Resources.


Q2: (similar to Q1) If a FARC player chooses this card but selects the Cartels as the event-affected faction then which player controls how it is carried out and makes all decisions around that?

Quote:
So, to make the text of General Offensive into explicit second person, read it as: "In each space possible, [you must] choose and execute either free Sweep without movement or Assault (if [you are the] Government), or free Attack or Terror (if [you are an] Insurgent)."


Q3: In this case since the text reads "You" it means that the player who chose the card is in control of how the event shapes up (subject to the imperative) and it must also be their faction which is acting, no-one else's, right?

Thanks.
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Volko Ruhnke
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tigermuppetcut wrote:
Thanks for clearing up that card Volko! I still have some slight confusion (in part due to the 5.1 section of your rules)

My pleasure, Al!

For convenience as we proceed below, here again is that key rule:

"5.1 Executing Events
When a Faction executes an Event, it carries out the Event text literally (sometimes involving actions or decisions by other Factions). Unless otherwise specified, the executing Faction makes all selections involved in implementing the text, such as which pieces are affected."

Quote:
Quote:
Many events specify a Faction, so whoever plays the Event, it's still the specified Faction that does whatever the card says. See, for example, "Narco-War", which specifies that Cartels executes the Terror, regardless of who played the event.


Q1: If Narco War is selected by the player of FARC then it is clear that the Cartel faction carries out the event but which player decides how to carry it out (which spaces to target, which guerilla's to reveal etc.)? Is it the FARC player (who chose the card), which agrees with 5.1, or is it the Cartel player?

In the case of Narco-War, it's quite simple, because there are no decisions to be made by anybody, once the Event is triggered--a bit of a bummer for the Cartels! Let's consider that Event's text:

"In each space with Cartels Guerrillas, remove all but 1; Cartels conduct free Terror with that 1. Mark Cartels Ineligible through next card."

You see that there is no space selection at all, nor choices among Guerrillas.

But a more general answer to your question, in the context of 5.1, is that if another Faction is to execute an Operation or Special Activity, the fact that that other Faction is executing that action means it gets to make the decisions of how to execute it, within the restrictions or exceptions noted in the Event text itself. Thus 5.1 notes "sometimes involving actions or decisions by other Factions". Because every Event text is different, you have to read each Event text, and read it literally....

Quote:
Quote:
Other events allow the person playing it to select a Faction--perhaps itself, perhaps another--to take specified actions. See, for example "Ayahuasca Tourism" shaded, which allows you to select any Faction with Guerrillas to execute Terror and gain Resources.


Q2: (similar to Q1) If a FARC player chooses this card but selects the Cartels as the event-affected faction then which player controls how it is carried out and makes all decisions around that?

In this case, we do have a small possibility of some choice, and whoever executes the Operation (Terror) would get that choice, once the Faction executing the Event has selected the Faction. Here's the relevant Event text:

"A Faction executes free Terror with any 1 Guerrilla in each Forest and gets +3 Resources per Terror."

The only choice involved, once a Faction is selected to execute the Terror, is created by the text "any 1 Guerrilla", which means that the Faction executing the Terror could choose its Active rather than the usual Terror rule of only an Underground Guerrilla (see 5.1.1 Example).

So, in your example, the FARC is playing the Event and for reasons of its own (perhaps a deal with the Cartels) selects the Cartels to execute the Terror. The Cartels then must execute Terror in each and every Forest space in which it has any Guerrillas. And the Cartels, if it had both Active and Underground Guerrillas in any of those spaces, could choose the Active Cartels Guerrillas to execute the Terror, so that its Underground Guerrillas could stay Underground.

Quote:
Quote:
So, to make the text of General Offensive into explicit second person, read it as: "In each space possible, [you must] choose and execute either free Sweep without movement or Assault (if [you are the] Government), or free Attack or Terror (if [you are an] Insurgent)."


Q3: In this case since the text reads "You" it means that the player who chose the card is in control of how the event shapes up (subject to the imperative) and it must also be their faction which is acting, no-one else's, right?

Precisely. The control here is also somewhat restricted, by the way, in that the executing Faction has to do one of the Ops specified in each space that it can; but it will get to choose which of the two Ops space by space, and also which enemies to target, if there are multiple enemies in a space.

Quote:
Thanks.

You bet! Hope that helps! A design goal is to squeeze a lot of variety out of the event deck, but that means lots of careful reading of event texts! Best regards, Volko
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