C J
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Hello everyone,

I just had a game where a revealed Cylon player drew a "Guilt by Collusion" crisis card. The effects on the bottom reads "PASS: current player may choose a character to move to the 'Brig'" and "FAIL: -1 morale." Under these circumstances, I don't see why human players would want to pass this crisis. It also seems like a lose-lose situation for humans. However, based on the quote in the middle of the card ("'Guess you haven't heard… Cylons don't have rights. Know what we do to Cylons, Chief?' - Saul Tigh"), it seems that the card was meant to target a suspected Cylon to be thrown in the Brig, and not meant for a revealed Cylon to draw and send a human to the Brig. I understand that the manual says that when the crisis card says "current player chooses", it does apply to a revealed Cylon player, but this case just seems a bit unusual. What do you all think about this, and what is the best solution?
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Pasi Ojala
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There are many lose-lose scenarios in BSG. The cylon was very lucky and humans unlucky.

(The cylon played the crisis from Caprica, right?)

I would take the fail (and save the skill cards), the president can make a speech to bring morale up. Unless of course Morale is already critical, then it may be better to pass the crisis and worry about the brig later.

Btw, you can't base any ruling on the flavor texts. Just use everything as written and you're usually okay.
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Revealed Cylons don't draw Crisis cards as part of their turns (Page 20, "Revealed Cylon Players’ Turns"), so the only way for this to have happened is for that Cylon to have activated the Cylon Location Caprica. I'd say it kinda makes sense for the Cylon to actually choose the player to brig if they pass the check, then.

About what to do, it depends a lot on what the situation is:
If all Cylons are revealed, you can try to pass the test, and then un-brig that player next turn (if you have enough Morale) or try to make if fail (if there are many raiders outside Galactica, all hands are needed to survive).
If there is still a non-revealed Cylon, it's even more difficult. If you pass, no-one can be sure the imprisoned player is Human or Cylon yet. It creates a chance for the unrevealed Cylon to be imprisoned and act nice until un-brigged, a risky maneuver that the non-revealed Cylon player can turn into great profits if he has been keeping a low profile.
It also depends on the number of cards the revealed Cylon has, maybe it could be worth it just trying to lure him into playing most of his card even if you'd rather make the check fail, for it would be a whole round without his interference in other checks.
It's also important to consider the distance you have yet to travel, and many other things.

I think there is no "best" solution, it all depends on what has happened up to that point, and even the best-considered solution can end up biting you in the ass. That's why I love this game
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BlackLeadAlchemist wrote:
It also depends on the number of cards the revealed Cylon has, maybe it could be worth it just trying to lure him into playing most of his card even if you'd rather make the check fail, for it would be a whole round without his interference in other checks.
It's also important to consider the distance you have yet to travel, and many other things.


I thought a revealed Cylon could only play one card in each check, so you can't really drain him of a lot of cards in one go.
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Karian wrote:
BlackLeadAlchemist wrote:
It also depends on the number of cards the revealed Cylon has, maybe it could be worth it just trying to lure him into playing most of his card even if you'd rather make the check fail, for it would be a whole round without his interference in other checks.
It's also important to consider the distance you have yet to travel, and many other things.


I thought a revealed Cylon could only play one card in each check, so you can't really drain him of a lot of cards in one go.

True, my mistake. It's even on the same page as the rule I mentioned earlier blush

The point of luring him is still valid, though: A card thrown somewhere the humans are ok with both results is a card that cannot hurt you later, specially since he only gets two cards per turn and you can potentially track what colors does he have left. It's a less interesting option than what I was thinking, but depending on the table dynamics and the exact situation could be worth it, specially if there is any hidden Cylon this situation could potentially induce to play some cards that could confirm your suspicions. (Yay multi-layered thinking http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_eZmEiyTo0 )
 
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BlackLeadAlchemist wrote:
The point of luring him is still valid, though: A card thrown somewhere the humans are ok with both results is a card that cannot hurt you later

But the current player plays into skill checks last, so the cylon would know if you put cards into the check. To lure the cylon you would actually need to play cards that you don't have later, or the cylon would need to have a pretty big positive/negative card in hand and trust the destiny to be in his favor.

In the base game you don't have superfluous cards, with the expansions you can at least throw in zeros that you don't want to clog up your hand, or treachery cards that do not trigger in the check.
 
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Yup. Like I said, it's quite situational, and depends a lot on table dynamics. Maybe it wouldn't work even then, but in my mind I can picture it and it's glorious
 
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Give it long enough, you'll run into situations where both options on Event cards are bad, as well as the skill check crisis cards. For example, -1 Fuel or -1 Morale when both are low.


There are a few crisis cards that humans would rather fail than pass, such as this.
 
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C J
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Okay, so it seems like everybody is in agreement that the card should still be read literally, despite the potential consequences of PASS being different depending on whether a revealed Cylon or human drew the card. I'm not sure if I've seen another card where humans would want to not pass because a Cylon drew it; in general, humans want to pass checks and Cylons want to make the humans fail the checks and this card seems to break this very straightforward trend.

Sorry for not being clear about it earlier, but yes, the revealed Cylon player did draw the crisis card from the Caprica location.

Also, I wasn't terribly concerned about how to resolve the card and how to strategize after the fact, only how to interpret the card. Thanks for the input all the same though!
 
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der1red wrote:
Okay, so it seems like everybody is in agreement that the card should still be read literally, despite the potential consequences of PASS being different depending on whether a revealed Cylon or human drew the card. I'm not sure if I've seen another card where humans would want to not pass because a Cylon drew it; in general, humans want to pass checks and Cylons want to make the humans fail the checks and this card seems to break this very straightforward trend.

Sorry for not being clear about it earlier, but yes, the revealed Cylon player did draw the crisis card from the Caprica location.

Also, I wasn't terribly concerned about how to resolve the card and how to strategize after the fact, only how to interpret the card. Thanks for the input all the same though!
If you're playing with the Cylon-Symp, gaining a resource like +1 Fuel or +1 Food just before you hit sleeper phase can be bad, and a revealed or unrevealed cylon can try to push for that.

A cylon looking at a loyalty card can give him information you may not want him to have.

There are also new elements with expansions, like one that would let a cylon player free a player in the Brig. Or timing Exodus' CFB and NOT wanting a +1 on the jump prep track.
 
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Yes the above comments are all correct.

This certainly one of the situations you'd want a human holding 'change of plans' for. This would also happen if this crisis came up on a human player who had just soft-revealed during their turn and there was no doubt they were non-human.
 
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Oh yes, I forgot about those crises that allow the current player to look at loyalty cards.

Unfortunately, I do not own any expansions. I have tried the first expansion in the past, but the end game that it added seemed to add more play time to an already long game. The Cylon leaders and treachery cards seemed interesting though.

Thanks, everyone, for clearing up the interpretation!
 
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der1red wrote:
I have tried the first expansion in the past, but the end game that it added seemed to add more play time to an already long game. The Cylon leaders and treachery cards seemed interesting though.

Btw, you choose to add the New Caprica end game in Pegasus, so you can as well choose not to. The same with Exodus and Daybreak. You choose which option to add and what to leave out. (Daybreak has better Cylon Leader mechanics than Pegasus: Motives work better than Agendas.)
 
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