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Star Trek: Attack Wing» Forums » General

Subject: Rules Suggestion: Target lock for red side cloak rss

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Is cloaking overpowered? Does Federation have major issues handling cloaked ship? But more importantly, does cloaking follow the Star Trek lore?

For the last comment, I say a resounding "no". Attack Wing Star Trek does not portray what happens when a ship decloaks.

To remedy this and also remedy the first 2 comments, what do you think about allowing ships to target lock red side cloaked ships?

Of course, this would only be worthwhile if there are upgrades that allow target lock during the attack phase. But that's for another discussion.
 
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Nicholas Broady
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Ships don't flip their cloak tokens to red until they shoot (or data) so there isn't really a time when you can take an action when a ship has a red cloak token.
 
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Nick Hawkins
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If you want a more thematic treatment of cloaking and target clocks you might want to look at my house rules Nick H's thematic house rules for Attack Wing.
 
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Matt Hawke
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If you're looking for a boost to counter, maybe you could do Target Lock + Aux token allows target locking a cloak. Thematically would be diverting power from elsewhere in the ship toward detection?

Another alternate rule if you'd like to see some more torpedo play could be to disallow any actions in the first round. Doesn't necessarily guarantee a second round lock, but could force cloaked players to take the long way and a counter by federation quick ships with Engage, Jadzia, etc. could get in.
 
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Larry DeStefano
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I agree that while cloaking rules work in attack wing they are not thematically correct. You will find about 20+ threads on this subject with suggestions including my own as well.
 
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Stephen Thorpe
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Isn't target locking when the cloak token is red redundant?

The fact it's red means it has to de-cloak which means it will be able to be target locked in the next action phase anyway.
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Scott Steiner
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If you could target lock when red side cloak is revealed it would make Capt Data more powerful.

Action: Disable one of your crew upgrades and one of your weapon upgrades to target all cloaked ship at range 1-3. They immediately flip their cloak tokens to the red side.

Then you could target lock during the action phase with other ships.

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JT Payne
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I could have swore we were done with the "cloaking is too powerful" and "thematically the cloak does not work right" arguments. Play the rules as they are and you will find that cloak ships are not as powerful as all that people are making them out to be.

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Xander Fulton
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SteRT wrote:
Isn't target locking when the cloak token is red redundant?

The fact it's red means it has to de-cloak which means it will be able to be target locked in the next action phase anyway.


Indeed - that's how the game works.

I think half the 'cloak is too powerful' comments come from people either with poorly built lists or who aren't playing it right.

rangarth wrote:
If you could target lock when red side cloak is revealed it would make Capt Data more powerful.


It really wouldn't because, as noted: redundant.

rangarth wrote:
Then you could target lock during the action phase with other ships.


But you already can - action phase of the following turn, everyone can lock the newly-popped cloak. You only cannot be locked if you retained your cloak from one turn to the next.

Any turn you ACTIVATE the cloak in - for the first time - you can be target locked just like any other ship, at any point.

And, yeah, I can't tell you how many times that has let an enemy land some torpedoes on my freshly-unshielded-hull.
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Clock by itself isn't overpowered.

But when you combine it with high attack dice and high hull and come about and you multiple by it by 3, well that's when things become lopsided.

Not to mention combining it with a 12-attack-dice Barrage of Fire with rerolls and auto-hits.

The idea of target locking a red-side clock is just a suggestion. Would it even things out? Would it nerf Klingons and Romulans too much? I was wondering what other players who have played a lot of games think how it would impact the game.

Yes, it would make Captain Data much more powerful. I think there would also need to be new upgrade cards that give a free Target Lock during the attack phase.
 
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Ted Kay
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I look at anything that cloaks without augmenting its defense dice in any way, laugh and take a battle stations action with Dukat and Boheeka for 5 dice of hyper-accurate damage rolls on my Koranak, or more with additional upgrades. When they get all of 1 or 2 evades I then politely thank them for allowing me to lob a bunch of criticals directly through to their hull. If they happen to roll well, I shrug, turn a bit to keep them in arc, and do it again. Law of averages says I can kill your Negh'var with two or three solid volleys.

The mechanics behind cloaking if anything favor the attacker, by allowing them to fire at a ship that is cloaked in the first place. Very rarely did you ever see ships firing their weapons into empty space in Star Trek, even when there was suspicion of a cloaked vessel in the vicinity. But there's a thematic change that would make the game very boring.

Klingons and Romulans trade the much more conventional battle stations and scan actions for their cloak and sensor echo actions. I'd call this a very fair trade, considering what's being given up in exchange for the cloak.
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jonathan kipps-bolton
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rangarth wrote:
If you could target lock when red side cloak is revealed it would make Capt Data more powerful.

Action: Disable one of your crew upgrades and one of your weapon upgrades to target all cloaked ship at range 1-3. They immediately flip their cloak tokens to the red side.

Then you could target lock during the action phase with other ships.



Is this actually covered in the FAQ?

At the moment this is only card where this card applies.

Since you may have more actions left once they're flipped.

I would say as the rules stand you can already target lock when the token is red side, the same way you can target lock a ship where the token is resting on the base as its not fully cloaked.

In both instances the ship is considered half cloaked so gets the bonus defense dice but no more.
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Jeff Whaley
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I believe that if Data was your highest skilled captain, this would provide no action benefit.

But I have to think that if Data de-cloaks ships and you have another higher skilled captain to follow him, then I don't see why that captain couldn't target lock the de-cloaking ship on that turn.

What would be really nice is if there comes an upgrade that will combine with Data's ability to transmit the coordinates of the de-cloaking ships via target lock, such that all ships could use that target lock to fire.

I know, can't use the same action on the same token more than once, but thematically it would be very satisfying to see 3 Fed ships focus firing a de-cloaking Bird of Prey.
 
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Star Trek Attack Wing Rules of Play Pg. 11 wrote:
While it is possible to Target Lock an enemy ship the turn that it Cloaks (i.e. if its Cloak Token is still resting on its ship base), a ship cannot acquire a Target Lock on a ship that has been Cloaked since the previous turn (i.e., if its Cloak Token is now beside the ship base).
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Kristoff Bergenholm
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jiffk wrote:

Is this actually covered in the FAQ?

At the moment this is only card where this card applies.

Since you may have more actions left once they're flipped.

I would say as the rules stand you can already target lock when the token is red side, the same way you can target lock a ship where the token is resting on the base as its not fully cloaked.

In both instances the ship is considered half cloaked so gets the bonus defense dice but no more.


Nope. A ship with a red cloak token is still just as cloaked; it's just a reminder to remove the token at the end of the turn.
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jonathan kipps-bolton
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Magentawolf wrote:


Nope. A ship with a red cloak token is still just as cloaked; it's just a reminder to remove the token at the end of the turn.


Actually you just decloaked to fire, hence why you are removing the token at the end of the phase and raising shields.

The token hangs around to simulate the surprise at having decloaked and the enemy not knowing exactly where you were, i dont see how this means you cant get a target lock.

This would be more useful with someone like martok or picard as then you would get 2 target locks for the price of one on the now decloaking ship.
 
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Jeff Whaley
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part of the reason you can't target lock a de-cloaking ship is they de-cloak AFTER the ACTION phase.
You literally CAN'T lock them during the COMBAT phase.

The only way I see it working is Data de-cloaks all cloaked ships with his action, then a higher skilled captain in the fleet can now target lock a de-cloaking ship.

What I don't know is if you are allowed to target lock a ship that is de-cloaking or will it be ruled they are still sufficiently 'cloaked' that you just can't get a lock on.
 
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