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Subject: Ally abilities rss

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Glenn Chambers

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Played my first two games Christmas day, and something came up that I'd like to make sure we got right.

I've played other games with the same 'boost symbol' mechanic as the Ally Abilities, but in those games, if I play (for example) a Trade Federation card with an Ally Ability, then play a second Trade Federation card, the first card's ability isn't available.

That doesn't seem to be the intent of the rule text, though, especially given the fact that bases have Ally Abilities (though I suppose the idea would be that the ability only happens when you first deploy the base.)

We played it that the first card's ability was available, and it seemed to work OK, but I'd like to do it 'right' or at least know if I'm doing it 'wrong.'
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Casey Hughes
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It explains in the Ally ability section of the rules that they trigger whenever a card with the matching faction enters play. Once triggered they can be used any time during your Main Phase.
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Glenn Chambers

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houjix1138 wrote:
It explains in the Ally ability section of the rules that they trigger whenever a card with the matching faction enters play. Once triggered they can be used any time during your Main Phase.

That's how I read it, I just wanted to be sure, since other games make a different choice.

The other way forces trade-offs and careful sequencing, since if you have two cards with an ability triggered by the other, it matters in that game which order you play them in.
 
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Peter Rabinowitz
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I think this game needs a FAQ for people who have played more complex games.

No, there's no mana to tap.
No, the order you play cards doesn't matter.
No, there's no interrupts.
Yes, you can play cards, attack, and buy in any order and as much as you can afford.

I am quite impressed with how much of the complexity this game has stripped away while still maintaining what makes games like this fun.
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Glenn Chambers

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kc2dpt wrote:
I think this game needs a FAQ for people who have played more complex games.

No, there's no mana to tap.
No, the order you play cards doesn't matter.
No, there's no interrupts.
Yes, you can play cards, attack, and buy in any order and as much as you can afford.

I am quite impressed with how much of the complexity this game has stripped away while still maintaining what makes games like this fun.


"Mana to tap" must be an M:TG reference; I've never played that. I was actually thinking of Legendary (the Marvel superhero co-op/compete deck-builder.

Legendary's a bit more complex than this, but not extremely so. Not like Trajan, for example.
 
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Vito Gesualdi
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All you need to use an ally ability is another card of the same faction in play. Order does not matter

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spambait42c wrote:
Played my first two games Christmas day, and something came up that I'd like to make sure we got right.

I've played other games with the same 'boost symbol' mechanic as the Ally Abilities, but in those games, if I play (for example) a Trade Federation card with an Ally Ability, then play a second Trade Federation card, the first card's ability isn't available.

That doesn't seem to be the intent of the rule text, though, especially given the fact that bases have Ally Abilities (though I suppose the idea would be that the ability only happens when you first deploy the base.)

We played it that the first card's ability was available, and it seemed to work OK, but I'd like to do it 'right' or at least know if I'm doing it 'wrong.'


I think an Ally ability only triggers once per turn. So your third card would only trigger its own Ally ability, but would not re-trigger the Ally ability on your other two played cards.

I back this only with Vito's digital game demo on youtube starting about 14:50. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0eOvPQncMg )
 
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Arthur O'Dwyer
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LonerVamp wrote:
spambait42c wrote:
I've played other games with the same 'boost symbol' mechanic as the Ally Abilities, but in those games, if I play (for example) a Trade Federation card with an Ally Ability, then play a second Trade Federation card, the first card's ability isn't available.

That doesn't seem to be the intent of the rule text, though ... We played it that the first card's ability was available


I think an Ally ability only triggers once per turn. So your third card would only trigger its own Ally ability, but would not re-trigger the Ally ability on your other two played cards.


As Casey explained (correctly AFAIK), there's a difference between "triggering" an ally ability and "using" that ability.

If I have only one Trade Federation card in play, then its ally ability has not yet been "triggered", so I can't "use" the ability.

If at any point during my turn I have two or more Trade Federation cards in play, then each of their ally abilities immediately become "triggered" (by the other TF cards in play), and are then available for "use" (once per turn) anytime thereafter.

This is not quite the same thing as saying "You can use any ally ability once per turn, anytime you have another card of that Faction in play" — because it's possible to play card X, then play allied card Y to "trigger" X's ally ability, then "use" Y's scrap ability, and then "use" X's triggered ally ability (even though X is now the only allied card in play).

Sorry I haven't come up with a concrete example where this could be useful in practice, but I'm pretty sure it could be — e.g.,
* use Y's scrap ability to cycle the Trade Row before you use X's ally ability to acquire a card from it;
* use Y's scrap ability to put a card on top of your deck before you use X's ally ability to draw that card.

I know I'm explicitly contradicting what official spokesman Vito said above, but I hope Vito will clarify whether his wording was intended to be 100% correct or just an approximation. ;)
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Brian Kumanchik
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So if you have 2 cards with the same faction, they can each trigger the other cards faction ability?
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Casey Hughes
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bkumanchik wrote:
So if you have 2 cards with the same faction, they can each trigger the other cards faction ability?


Correct. Ally abilities look both forward and backward to see if they trigger.
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Brian Kumanchik
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Awsome, Thanks!
 
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Vito Gesualdi
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Ah yes Arthur, excellent correction! An card's ally ability becomes triggered once it sees another card of the same faction in play. Even if the card it sees leaves play because of a scrap ability, the ally ability remains triggered and can be used.

Think of it like a morale boost for the ship's (or base's) pilots. Facing off against the enemy with dread in their hearts, they suddenly spot another friendly ship, both ships now filled with the resolve to kick some ass!
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Apan Loco
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Hi friends,

In my quest for clarification on abilities I have something to add regarding the separation of "trigger" and "use" that Arthur and Vito discussed above.

I'm quoting the manual ("Using Abilities"):
"With the exception of a Ship's Primary Ability (which triggers immediately as the Ship is played) [...]".

Note "triggers".

With Arthur's explanation this would no longer mean the Primary Ability must be "used" as the ship comes into play. Vito has however clarified in another post that a Ship's Primary Ability really must be "used" when it comes into play.

I quote Vito:
"It is not optional to use a ship's primary ability as it enters play."

So the separation of "trigger" and "use" doesn't work for the primary ability with the wording used in the manual, since it would directly contradict what Vito has stated applies for the Primary Abilities.
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John Raggio
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VitoGesualdi wrote:
Ah yes Arthur, excellent correction! An card's ally ability becomes triggered once it sees another card of the same faction in play. Even if the card it sees leaves play because of a scrap ability, the ally ability remains triggered and can be used.

Think of it like a morale boost for the ship's (or base's) pilots. Facing off against the enemy with dread in their hearts, they suddenly spot another friendly ship, both ships now filled with the resolve to kick some ass!


You mention here that the ally ability remains as an option even after the ally were scrapped. Does the same hold true if the ally were destroyed by my opponent? Then again that would mean it was their turn and I couldn't use the ability anyway? Are there any abilities that can be played on my opponent's turn?

It sounds like once the ally ability is made available ("triggered"), then it remains so even if the ally is removed?

Thanks,
John
 
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johnraggio wrote:
VitoGesualdi wrote:
Ah yes Arthur, excellent correction! An card's ally ability becomes triggered once it sees another card of the same faction in play. Even if the card it sees leaves play because of a scrap ability, the ally ability remains triggered and can be used.

Think of it like a morale boost for the ship's (or base's) pilots. Facing off against the enemy with dread in their hearts, they suddenly spot another friendly ship, both ships now filled with the resolve to kick some ass!


You mention here that the ally ability remains as an option even after the ally were scrapped. Does the same hold true if the ally were destroyed by my opponent? Then again that would mean it was their turn and I couldn't use the ability anyway? Are there any abilities that can be played on my opponent's turn?

It sounds like once the ally ability is made available ("triggered"), then it remains so even if the ally is removed?

Thanks,
John


An ally remains triggered for the rest of the turn, not the rest of the game. Also, no cards have an ability you can use on your opponents turn.
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Robert Odrix
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Quuxplusone wrote:
This is not quite the same thing as saying "You can use any ally ability once per turn, anytime you have another card of that Faction in play" — because it's possible to play card X, then play allied card Y to "trigger" X's ally ability, then "use" Y's scrap ability, and then "use" X's triggered ally ability (even though X is now the only allied card in play).

Sorry I haven't come up with a concrete example where this could be useful in practice, but I'm pretty sure it could be — e.g.,
* use Y's scrap ability to cycle the Trade Row before you use X's ally ability to acquire a card from it;
* use Y's scrap ability to put a card on top of your deck before you use X's ally ability to draw that card.

I can think of two similar, yet distinct general situations for a turn with only two factioned cards, X and Y, of the same faction:

[1] X has a self-scrap activated ability and Y has an ally ability.
[2] X has an ally ability and also a self-scrap activated ability, Y is the ally.
The question in both cases is, can the ally ability be used after the scrap ability?

Looking at some concrete examples may help.

For the situation [1], let’s look at this hypothetical turn: Play three Scouts, a Trading Post (+1 authority or +1 trade; self-scrap=> +3 combat), and Commandship (+4 authority, +5 combat, and draw two cards; ally=> You may destroy target base) drawing two scouts (five total). Use Trading Post for +1 trade bringing trade pool up to 6, then scrap Trading Post for +3 combat bringing combat pool up to 8. Use 6 combat to destroy opponent’s Mech World (an outpost with 6 defense), then use Commadship’s ally ability to destroy the opponent’s Fleet HQ (a normal base with 8 defense). Use the last two combat to reduce opponent’s authority. Finally, buy something for 6. If the Commandship “forgets” that it was triggered (which is not the case, according to Vito), you would have to use the ship’s ability first on the Mech World, and then scrap the Trading Post to destroy the Fleet HQ, which would leave the opponent two authority healthier.

For situation [2], it gets a little more complicated. At least for the base set, there are only five cards that have both an ally ability and also a self-scrap ability, of which the ally abilities generally occur automatically and immediately (i.e. +combat or opponent discards a card). The weird one is “draw a card” because currently in the digital app, draws from ally abilities occur automatically and immediately, but in the physical game you are allowed to choose when to use them. Thus, this example only applies to the physical for now: Play three Scouts, a Ram (+5 combat; ally=> +2 combat; self-scrap=> +3 trade), and Battle Blob (+6 combat; ally=> draw a card; self-scrap=> +4 combat). Upon playing the Battle Blob, both blob cards’ ally abilities are triggered (that is, add 2 to the combat pool, now at 13, and gain “draw a card”). If you scrap either first, do you lose the other’s ally ability? Again, not the case according to Vito. Less sure of this (don’t know why you ever would though): Can you use the draw from Battle Blob after scrapping Battle Blob?
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Robodrix wrote:
Less sure of this (don’t know why you ever would though): Can you use the draw from Battle Blob after scrapping Battle Blob?


I am fairly sure you cannot. You can only play ally abilities of cards that are in play, and scrapping moves the card from in play to the scrap heap.
 
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