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Subject: Chapter 3 dining room - rat placement and activation questions rss

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Robin Reeve
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Hi all,
I posted those questions on Plaidhat games' forums, but they seem less visited than over here.
Sorry if the 'double posting' disturbs anyone.

I don't have access to the English story book (I did download the pdf rulebook from Plaidhat) but the French special rules about chapter 3 seem to have missed something.

When exploring the dining room, the game says that if the mice have disguise, they can go up on the table and play dice with "rats" (no more precision).
There is no indication about what types of rats are in which place.
However, there only is an indication of which rats are placed in what places in the case when mice don't have disguise : three warrior rats normally placed on the tile and two elite rats, as well as the raisin on the table.
What is strange, is that that setup indication is specifically included in the "non disguised" paragraphe and thus seems only to be applied in that case.

The rule also says that no warrior rat card is placed on the initiative track.

So here are my questions :

1 - Is the placement of rats the same when mice have disguise ?

2 - How can the disguised mice play with elite rats, as the latter don't get bluffed by the disguises (Note : the English rules don't say anything about a difference between normal and elite rats about disguise, but the French rulebook adds a line saying that disguise does not work vs elite rats !) ?

3 - The rules speaks of "rats" being eliminated through the dice game : does this include elite rats or not ?

4 - Are non elite warrior rats in the room eliminated through dice gaming, even though they are not on the table ?

5 - Is the elite rats card placed on the initiative track from the beginning of the exploration of the tile (the special rule only speaks of warrior rats' card) ?
5a - If it is the case, does that mean that the elite rats attack when it is their turn (which could be before some or all mice have tried to play dice against them ?

Thanks in advance for the answers !

BTW, if a French speaking player reads this thread, does he know where rule questions can be adressed to the French editor of the game? I haven't been able to spot any forum on Filosofia's site, nor any "rules questions" link.
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Kirill Krymskiy
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1. If mice have disguise then all mice and 6 rat warriors (not elite) are placed on the table. They will play dice.
2. On the table there're only (non-elite) rat warriors. Elite rats are only placed if mice don't have disguise.
3-5. Look above.
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Ken Marley
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Without disguises:

3rats and 2 elite rats placed normally with a grape on the dining room table. Remember the elite rats could throw the grape at the mice. This plays out as normal no special rules.


With disguises:

Place 6 rats AND the mice on the table. Play the dice game instead of normal play.

Dice game rules:

Initiative order each mouse gets a turn.

Mouse bets 0-3 cheese.

Mouse rolls 4 dice looking for stars and can reroll up to their lore value (Maginos can reroll 3 dice)

Rat rolls 5 dice looking for stars. No rerolls for rats.

Rats win ties.

If the mouse wins get the cheese bet from the rats and remove one rat. If the mice bet 0 cheese they still get 1 cheese and remove one rat.

If the rat wins mouse loses cheese equal to the amount bet. If the bet was zero the rats attack. Place the rat warrior initiative card at the top of the track and start combat.

Some other rolls from Jerry: you can not trade cheese between mice during the dice game. Our house rule is that we distribute cheese amount the mice before the game.

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Robin Reeve
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Thank you so much for the clarifications !
Things are much more understandable now!

I would still need some precisions :

- when mice are not disguised, are the normal rats normally placed in the room (with only the two elite on the table), as the French rules say?
- Is the prohibition of sharing cheese during the dice game in the special rules, or is it an addition explained in a rules question forum?

I am just trying to make the proper corrections in my French version.

Again, thanks for the quick and very usefull answers !
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Robin Reeve
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Oh, and does the specification of the French rules that elite rats are not fooled by the mice's disguise have any correspondance in an English clarification of the rules?
 
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Rob Wrigley
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You're just overthinking this encounter. It works like this:

Enter the room. If you DON'T have disguises, place the Elite Rats and have a regular encounter.

If you DO, then stop playing Mice and Mystics, and just play the little dicing minigame described in the Chapter.

When the dicing game ends, return to playing Mice and Mystics.
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Robin Reeve
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robwrigley wrote:
You're just overthinking this encounter. It works like this:

Enter the room. If you DON'T have disguises, place the Elite Rats and have a regular encounter.

If you DO, then stop playing Mice and Mystics, and just play the little dicing minigame described in the Chapter.

When the dicing game ends, return to playing Mice and Mystics.
I don't think that I am overthinking anything.
I perfectly understood the basic notions that you expressed - and which don't answer in the slightest way the questions I have asked (it even seems you got things wrong, as you speak of playing dice with "the Elite rats" which don't even seem to be placed in the case when the mice are disguised: after what I understood from the other posters, one places 6 non elite warrior rats on the table).

In the French version, there is no indication about which rats are in which place, when mice are disguised.
The answers provided by the previous posters did make things very clear.
My subsequent questions are just meant to verify where the French version differs (or not) from the original (English) rules.
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Ken Marley
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Robin wrote:
Thank you so much for the clarifications !
Things are much more understandable now!

I would still need some precisions :

- when mice are not disguised, are the normal rats normally placed in the room (with only the two elite on the table), as the French rules say?
- Is the prohibition of sharing cheese during the dice game in the special rules, or is it an addition explained in a rules question forum?

I am just trying to make the proper corrections in my French version.

Again, thanks for the quick and very usefull answers !


Yes the regular mice are placed as normal without disguises. Sounds like the French version got this part correct.

The sharing cheese question was a forum answer by Jerry.

Edit: no problem. To bad the French rules messed up the dice game. The dice game is one of my favorite bits in Mice and Mystics.
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Ken Marley
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Robin wrote:
Oh, and does the specification of the French rules that elite rats are not fooled by the mice's disguise have any correspondance in an English clarification of the rules?


This is not in the English rules, but was clarified by Jerry in the forum. So for this the French rules are clearer and correct.
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Robin Reeve
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Thanks again for the answers!
The French rules actually explain the dice game correctly in itself. It is the setup that was omitted.
The non sharing of the cheese does add to the tension. I like that!
 
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Nelson Luiz
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I have just realized I misplayed chapter 3 badly (and lost twice before I managed to win) because of the French rules (not sure if the English rules are better).

Thx for the clarification. While no-one said explicitly about the initiative track, my new understanding is that:


If mice is not wearing disguise:

Place 3 rats + 2 elite rats + raisin on the table. Place both rats and elite rats cards on the initiative track (together with the mice cards).

If mice is wearing disguise:

Place 6 rats on the table. Place only regular rats card together with mice cards on the initiative track. Play dice game.


So, a few additional questions:

What happens on the rats turn on the initiative track during the game? Who do they play against? If a mice loses without cheese, dice game is finished and it becomes a regular encounter by following the initiative track from the last mouse that played. Correct?

If mice are not wearing disguise, what happens if all minions are killed before throwing the raisin? Does it become available for grabing?

Also, a question came up when we arrived at the alchemist´s lab. There are 2 elite rats on top of the library, which is surrounded by red lines. Is the only way to get there by using a scroll? The first time I played, no one got there and there was no way to kill them except by ranged attacks, and we only had Maginus' very weak wand attack. We were killed and cheesed to death before we could do anything.


Whoever is playing with the French version, the translation was good until now, have you seen additional problems further down the chapters? It would be interesting to start creating an errata.

Thx
 
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