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Subject: Proposed Game Roles / Rules Comments requested. rss

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This is a basic WW themed game.*

The game is designed for between 20-25 players.

The Virtual Table

An image of the virtual table will be shown after every dusk. The players seats at the virtual table will be randomly filled. There is no way to move from one seat to the other. See private messaging below for where this comes into play.

ROLES & ITEMS:

KEY
Blue = Village team (all Good unless otherwise noted)
Red = Wolf team (all Evil unless otherwise noted)
Green = Variable (alignment/team varies)
Orange = Independent parties (alignment varies, but usually Evil)

* = Role is under the impression that it's a normal Villager

These roles WILL be in the game:
BODYGUARD: Each Night, pick a player (not yourself) to protect. All attacks that Night vs. that player will fail. You can't pick the same player twice in a row.

GHOST*: If you're killed, you'll still be able to vote (but not communicate) in future Day phases.

HUNTER Brutal: After being killed, you can attack another player. You must pre-select your target. Brutal is OPTIONAL. The Hunter is a parity Hunter.

MASON: There are two or three Masons in the game. You have no special powers, but you may privately communicate with each other at any time.

MAYOR: Your vote counts twice.

SEER: Each Night, pick a player to scan. That player's race (human/Wolf) will be revealed to you. Lycan scans as Wolf, Cursed scans as Human. You will receive a random N0 human scan.

TROUBLEMAKER: One Night, you may elect to "stir up trouble" and cause two lynchings the following Day.

VILLAGER: You have no special powers. There may be more than one of this role in the game.

WEREWOLF x3-5: Each Night, you and your fellow wolves confer and select a player to attack. You may privately communicate with each other at any time. There may be more than one of this role in the game.

MINION: You are Human. You know who the werewolves are and they know who you are, but you CANNOT privately communicate with them unless table position allows it.

SORCERER: Each Night, pick a player to scan. You'll be told if that player is the Seer or Apprentice Seer (if in game), but you won't be told which.


These roles MAY be in the game:
APPRENTICE SEER: If the Seer is killed, you will assume its duties. You will not inherit any scan information however you will select a target each night, and the night the SEER dies you will get a view on that target.

LUMBERJACK: If you're attacked at Night, you won't die immediately. You'll survive until the end of the following Night.

LYCAN*: You'll be scanned (incorrectly) by the Seer as non-human.

TOWN CRIER: At the start of each Day, you'll be told how many players were active the previous Night.

ALPHA WOLF: You're a werewolf, but you'll be scanned (incorrectly) by the Seer as human.

RED WOLF: You're a werewolf. If you're lynched, you'll get to attack one of your accusers before dying.

FRAMER: You're human. Each Night you pick a player. If the Seer scans that player on the same Night, the scan result will be the opposite of what it should be.

MOLE: You're human. On even numbered Nights, pick a player. You'll be told if that player is a werewolf (or variant).

CURSED*: You start as a Villager. If you're attacked by wolves, you'll transform into a standard Werewolf the following Night.

IMPOSTER: Pick a player at the start of the game. If you're attacked at Night, that player will be attacked instead, and if he/she is killed, you'll assume that player's role.

CULT LEADER: You are human/evil. Each Night, pick a player to convert. If the game reaches the point where all living players are in the cult, you win.

WARLOCK: You are human/evil. Each Night, pick a player you think will be killed that Night or the following Day. If you make three matches, you win and leave the game.

Victory Conditions
Certain roles may complicate this, but in general:

VILLAGE TEAM: Must eliminate all the Werewolves; human allies of the wolf team don't count.

WOLF TEAM: Must reduce human population (regardless of team) to equal the number of living WEREWOLVES.

CULT LEADER (if in game): As soon as all living players are part of your cult, you win - even if you're dead. If applicable, you'll leave the village and the game will continue. You're scanned as Human/Evil.

WARLOCK (if in game): As soon as you achieve three matches, you win. If applicable, you'll leave the village and the game will continue. You're scanned as Human/Evil.


Other Rules

# OF ACTUAL WEREWOLVES AT GAME START: 3-5. This doesn't include human allies of the Wolf team, or roles which can transform into a Werewolf.

VOTING: Lynch decided by LHLV (Longest Held Last Vote). This will be adjusted of course by roles/magic items.

REVEAL: Alignment. The alignment (good/evil) of each player is revealed upon death.

PRIVATE MESSAGING:
Proximity, Living. You will share a chat with the closest living player to either side of your seat in the virtual neighborhood. There is no way to change this other than someone to your left or right dying.

Wolves share a chat room. Masons will share a chat room.

---

MAYOR is different than in the BGG definitive list. Perhaps I should come up with another name for this role, so it can be added to that list, or at least no confuse people. Suggestions? How about Senator?

LYCAN is a bit different than just a tinker. A Lycan will view as Wolf to the Seer, but the Sorcerer will still see them as NOT SEER.

GHOST not sure if this role can work with Cassie. If not, I guess I can just manually add the Ghosts vote to the finally tally.

---

If any roles above match BGG roles used with a different name or conflict with the role as most people are used to it here, like the Mayor let me know.

---

(*Thanks and apologies to Rich Yasi, this was mostly borrowed/stolen from a really fun game he ran on his web site.)

BOb

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Caitlin
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Who took the Bomp from the Bompalompalomp? Who took the Ram from the Ramalamading dong?
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I'm interested. Looks like it would be fun without items.
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Phelan
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I'm going to look at this with more attention later, but two links you might be interested on:
-We usually post requests like this to WW Game Development Queue, since it has more eyes to look over sets.
-There's a game with proximity messaging in signup: A game simulating real life Werewolf (10pm BGG lynch). (4/15)
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Phelanpt wrote:
I'm going to look at this with more attention later, but two links you might be interested on:
-We usually post requests like this to WW Game Development Queue, since it has more eyes to look over sets.
-There's a game with proximity messaging in signup: A game simulating real life Werewolf (10pm BGG lynch). (4/15)


Ah... so post the set in that thread.. or post a link there to this thread?

I am signed up for that game you mentioned BTW.

BOb
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pilotbob wrote:
MAYOR is different than in the BGG definitive list. Perhaps I should come up with another name for this role, so it can be added to that list, or at least no confuse people. Suggestions? How about Senator?
I think Mayor has been used the way you're using here. I think there are several versions.

pilotbob wrote:
LYCAN is a bit different than just a tinker. A Lycan will view as Wolf to the Seer, but the Sorcerer will still see them as NOT SEER.

GHOST not sure if this role can work with Cassie. If not, I guess I can just manually add the Ghosts vote to the finally tally.

This has been done before, by adding the vote to the tally at the end.
You can also not mark them as killed in cassy, and the vote still counts. Just lock their chats and tell them they can't post in thread.

Votes can be used for communication, though. Basic codes, for instance.

pilotbob wrote:
If any roles above match BGG roles used with a different name or conflict with the role as most people are used to it here, like the Mayor let me know.
Check this list: http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/BGG_Werewolf_PBF_Role_Lis...
It's a much more definitive list, as it's more current, and updatable
 
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pilotbob wrote:
Phelanpt wrote:
I'm going to look at this with more attention later, but two links you might be interested on:
-We usually post requests like this to WW Game Development Queue, since it has more eyes to look over sets.
-There's a game with proximity messaging in signup: A game simulating real life Werewolf (10pm BGG lynch). (4/15)


Ah... so post the set in that thread.. or post a link there to this thread?

I am signed up for that game you mentioned BTW.

BOb
Either way works. Might as well link here, since you created the thread already.
 
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Bob, have you played WW on other sites?

Also, some good stuff here, but personally not a fan of zombie/ghost type post after dead roles (ghost). Even if it's just voting the votes will be a certain type of communication.
 
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Questions:
Does the cult continue converting if the Cult Leader dies? Or conversion stops?
Do all cult members know who the other members are? Do they have a private chat?

Is there a way to change seats? Or your only way to get close to someone else is to lynch/nk people between you?
 
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dbmurph22 wrote:
Bob, have you played WW on other sites?

Also, some good stuff here, but personally not a fan of zombie/ghost type post after dead roles (ghost). Even if it's just voting the votes will be a certain type of communication.


Yes, I have played on other sites.

That's kind of the point of the Ghost... but he doesn't KNOW anything more than what is on the thread. He doesn't get access to dead chat or spoliers, etc. It plays a bit differently than IRL since IRL the ghost can watch the night occur.

So, he puts in his opinion (communication) by voting. People can ignore him or not, but his vote counts for the lynch.

BOb


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Phelanpt wrote:
Questions:
Does the cult continue converting if the Cult Leader dies? Or conversion stops?
Do all cult members know who the other members are? Do they have a private chat?


Nope, you don't know if your a cult member, well, unless the Cult Leader chats to you. That said, there is no cult team. Basically, it is a win condition for that person. He loses if he doesn't meet his personal win conditions.

Phelanpt wrote:

Is there a way to change seats? Or your only way to get close to someone else is to lynch/nk people between you?


No way to change seats... at least in my design. It sort of to simulate an IRL game where you can lean over and whisper to the person next to you. What do you suggest?

BOb
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pilotbob wrote:
Phelanpt wrote:
Questions:
Does the cult continue converting if the Cult Leader dies? Or conversion stops?
Do all cult members know who the other members are? Do they have a private chat?


Nope, you don't know if your a cult member, well, unless the Cult Leader chats to you. That said, there is no cult team. Basically, it is a win condition for that person. He loses if he doesn't meet his personal win conditions.
In that case his win condition is too hard. He needs to keep himself alive to convert enough people, and needs to make sure that anyone that isn't converted dies, if he does.
I'd reduce it to 2/3rds of the alive players, at least.

pilotbob wrote:
Phelanpt wrote:

Is there a way to change seats? Or your only way to get close to someone else is to lynch/nk people between you?


No way to change seats... at least in my design. It sort of to simulate an IRL game where you can lean over and whisper to the person next to you. What do you suggest?

BOb
Not really a suggestion, more a clarification. It seemed like some roles could benefit from being able to change seats, and it wasn't clear that it wouldn't happen.
Both work.
 
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Phelanpt wrote:
pilotbob wrote:
Phelanpt wrote:
Questions:
Does the cult continue converting if the Cult Leader dies? Or conversion stops?
Do all cult members know who the other members are? Do they have a private chat?


Nope, you don't know if your a cult member, well, unless the Cult Leader chats to you. That said, there is no cult team. Basically, it is a win condition for that person. He loses if he doesn't meet his personal win conditions.
In that case his win condition is too hard. He needs to keep himself alive to convert enough people, and needs to make sure that anyone that isn't converted dies, if he does.
I'd reduce it to 2/3rds of the alive players, at least.

pilotbob wrote:
Phelanpt wrote:

Is there a way to change seats? Or your only way to get close to someone else is to lynch/nk people between you?


No way to change seats... at least in my design. It sort of to simulate an IRL game where you can lean over and whisper to the person next to you. What do you suggest?

BOb
Not really a suggestion, more a clarification. It seemed like some roles could benefit from being able to change seats, and it wasn't clear that it wouldn't happen.
Both work.


True... it's hard to get a win as the cult leader. You have to play it as you said. You have to:

1. Stay alive.
2. Pick people that aren't in danger of getting lynched or steer people away from your cult.

You can of course still win if after you die the win condition occurs.

The cult leader can chose who to favor, good or evil. He can also get help from that side if he converts folks next to him, and PMs them (if they believe him). Of course, they don't have to help him. But, he is a human and good wants him to stay alive as well.

Also, PMing a wolf that you are the cult leader helps keep you alive, since Wolfs want to hunt the specials, and they would leave you alone. It is also a role a good special could claim (since it is a "maybe" role") to perhaps deflect the wolf team from them.


BOb
 
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I updated the OP to clarify that the Cult Leader and Warlock both scan as Human to Wolf/Human seeking roles and Evil to Good/Evil seeking roles (which I don't think I have any of in this roleset).

BOb
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pilotbob wrote:
Phelanpt wrote:
pilotbob wrote:
Phelanpt wrote:
Questions:
Does the cult continue converting if the Cult Leader dies? Or conversion stops?
Do all cult members know who the other members are? Do they have a private chat?


Nope, you don't know if your a cult member, well, unless the Cult Leader chats to you. That said, there is no cult team. Basically, it is a win condition for that person. He loses if he doesn't meet his personal win conditions.
In that case his win condition is too hard. He needs to keep himself alive to convert enough people, and needs to make sure that anyone that isn't converted dies, if he does.
I'd reduce it to 2/3rds of the alive players, at least.

pilotbob wrote:
Phelanpt wrote:

Is there a way to change seats? Or your only way to get close to someone else is to lynch/nk people between you?


No way to change seats... at least in my design. It sort of to simulate an IRL game where you can lean over and whisper to the person next to you. What do you suggest?

BOb
Not really a suggestion, more a clarification. It seemed like some roles could benefit from being able to change seats, and it wasn't clear that it wouldn't happen.
Both work.


True... it's hard to get a win as the cult leader. You have to play it as you said. You have to:

1. Stay alive.
2. Pick people that aren't in danger of getting lynched or steer people away from your cult.

You can of course still win if after you die the win condition occurs.

The cult leader can chose who to favor, good or evil. He can also get help from that side if he converts folks next to him, and PMs them (if they believe him). Of course, they don't have to help him. But, he is a human and good wants him to stay alive as well.

Also, PMing a wolf that you are the cult leader helps keep you alive, since Wolfs want to hunt the specials, and they would leave you alone. It is also a role a good special could claim (since it is a "maybe" role") to perhaps deflect the wolf team from them.


BOb
Yeah, but consider the cult leader dying N1. Loses almost randomly.
Also, he can't choose who to favor, he has to convert from both sides, otherwise one of the other sides wins before he does.
I still think it's too hard to play. From other cultist type games I've seen, you know when you've been converted, and after conversion you win with the cult. That at least gets you some help doing your goal, even if the cultist might not be told who you are.
Otherwise, you pretty much have to convince both teams that you're better to them alive. You pretty much have to claim out of the blue.

And the fact that there might not be a Cult leader makes that claim out of the blue more suspicious.

I don't know. Seems hard.
 
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Phelanpt wrote:
pilotbob wrote:
Phelanpt wrote:
pilotbob wrote:
Phelanpt wrote:
Questions:
Does the cult continue converting if the Cult Leader dies? Or conversion stops?
Do all cult members know who the other members are? Do they have a private chat?


Nope, you don't know if your a cult member, well, unless the Cult Leader chats to you. That said, there is no cult team. Basically, it is a win condition for that person. He loses if he doesn't meet his personal win conditions.
In that case his win condition is too hard. He needs to keep himself alive to convert enough people, and needs to make sure that anyone that isn't converted dies, if he does.
I'd reduce it to 2/3rds of the alive players, at least.

pilotbob wrote:
Phelanpt wrote:

Is there a way to change seats? Or your only way to get close to someone else is to lynch/nk people between you?


No way to change seats... at least in my design. It sort of to simulate an IRL game where you can lean over and whisper to the person next to you. What do you suggest?

BOb
Not really a suggestion, more a clarification. It seemed like some roles could benefit from being able to change seats, and it wasn't clear that it wouldn't happen.
Both work.


True... it's hard to get a win as the cult leader. You have to play it as you said. You have to:

1. Stay alive.
2. Pick people that aren't in danger of getting lynched or steer people away from your cult.

You can of course still win if after you die the win condition occurs.

The cult leader can chose who to favor, good or evil. He can also get help from that side if he converts folks next to him, and PMs them (if they believe him). Of course, they don't have to help him. But, he is a human and good wants him to stay alive as well.

Also, PMing a wolf that you are the cult leader helps keep you alive, since Wolfs want to hunt the specials, and they would leave you alone. It is also a role a good special could claim (since it is a "maybe" role") to perhaps deflect the wolf team from them.


BOb
Yeah, but consider the cult leader dying N1. Loses almost randomly.
Also, he can't choose who to favor, he has to convert from both sides, otherwise one of the other sides wins before he does.
I still think it's too hard to play. From other cultist type games I've seen, you know when you've been converted, and after conversion you win with the cult. That at least gets you some help doing your goal, even if the cultist might not be told who you are.
Otherwise, you pretty much have to convince both teams that you're better to them alive. You pretty much have to claim out of the blue.

And the fact that there might not be a Cult leader makes that claim out of the blue more suspicious.

I don't know. Seems hard.


Yes... all good points. I think with 20-25 there aren't enough for a 3rd team... I could be wrong. I'll think about it. I like the idea of a few possible roles in the game though, just to throw in some chaos.

BOb
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Some of these points have been mentioned already.

Quote:

BODYGUARD: Each Night, pick a player (not yourself) to protect. All attacks that Night vs. that player will fail. You can't pick the same player twice in a row.

"All attacks" - does that also mean brutals?

Quote:

GHOST*: If you're killed, you'll still be able to vote (but not communicate) in future Day phases.

As murph mentioned, if the ghost is posting his votes in the thread, then there is a non-zero chance that the village could try to communicate with the ghost "Eg: Ghost - use morse code for your votes, with votes for X being dots and Y being dashes". Probably not a huge issue in this game, since they're a villager and don't have extra info. You can circumvent this by limiting the ghost to X votes a day, or having their vote be placed in cassy and manually added to the tally.

Quote:

HUNTER Brutal: After being attacked, you can attack another player. You must pre-select your target. Brutal is OPTIONAL.


Use of the word "attacked" for the trigger makes this ability less than clear. If they're attacked, but the bodyguard blocks, does their brutal trigger? What if they're lynched. I'm guessing you mean "After being killed", but if not, you may want to clarify.
Also, there is no mention of parity here. (eg: Normally, hunter on BGG means "in a 1v1 situation at game end, if the last two players are wolf and hunter, the hunter wins the game for the village"). Not sure if that's a deliberate omission, or not.. and if it's deliberate, consider changing the name from "hunter" to... I forget the BGG standard name for "self-aware brutal good". Something to do with an ax, maybe?

Quote:

SEER: Each Night, pick a player to scan. That player's race (human/non-human) will be revealed to you. Note that some roles may cause the scan to be incorrect.

Does the ghost appear as "human"? The cursed?
Minor nit, but it may be easiest just to list all the roles that the seer gets a hit on ("Will receive a positive view on wolves or the lycan"), rather then saying that he scans for "human", and then listing the race of every other role.
Also, you didn't state whether or not the seer gets a n0 view. And while normally that view is random, in games that try to simulate RL games sometimes it's not, so you'll probably want to specify.

Quote:

APPRENTICE SEER: If the Seer is killed, you will assume its duties. You will not inherit any scan information.

Does the Apprentice seer get a view the night that the seer is killed (if the seer is killed at night)?

Quote:

RED WOLF: You're a werewolf. If you're lynched, you'll get to attack one of your accusers before dying.

What if the red wolf is brutalled, or NK'd? (Imposter may have selected Red Wolf)

Quote:

IMPOSTER: Pick a player at the start of the game. If you're attacked at Night, that player will be attacked instead, and if he/she is killed, you'll assume that player's role.


If the seer dies, and the Imposter takes over, does the Apprentice seer also activate? Does the Imposter get a view the night he takes over for the seer, if the seer dies at night? What happens if the Imposter picks the brutal hunter or red wolf, and that person has their brutal set on the imposter?

Quote:

CULT LEADER: You are human/evil. Each Night, pick a player to convert. If the game reaches the point where all living players are in the cult, you win.


This does feel like a hard VC to reach, given that the people who you convert don't share your VC. But on the other hand it isn't a win-stealing VC. I think that if I were the cult leader I would claim D1. The wolves have no incentive to kill me, and in fact, they want me to reach my VC, because then I leave the game and it brings them closer to parity. The village doesn't want to lynch me... the only question is, will they believe my claim or not. And if I claim early enough in the day, they might. So maybe if you relaxed the VC it would be too easy. Although I'm not convinced this is a terribly interesting role, either to play as, or to play with. As the cult leader, I don't care about the deduction element of the game. As a villager/wolf, I'm mostly going to ignore someone who claims cult leader, except maybe to wonder if it's an evil or the seer who is false-claiming the role in order to avoid suspicion. So I think the real value of this role is that it might not be in the game, and someone might false-claim it. And actually, much of the above analysis applies to the Warlock as well (although they care a bit more about deduction, since they want to guess who the wolves will target, or to direct the lynch to their target.. and so they may not claim in order to do that better). Which makes me think the Warlock is a more interesting version of the Cult Leader. I'd be more interested in seeing 0-2 Warlocks, then 0-1 cult leaders and 0-1 warlocks. 0-2 Warlocks also means that if someone false-claims Warlock, another warlock doesn't know if they're lying or not. Although maybe because the warlock has an easier-to-reach VC, it's a harder role to false-claim.

How hard is the CL VC to reach? Assume 25 people, 24 not on your team, 2 deaths a night, and 1 conversion. In 8 nights there are 9 people remaining, so you could have potentially converted them all - which means that you basically had to guess who was going to be the Lynch and the NK for 8 straight days (and 8 days in advance), and avoid converting those people... this seems a lot harder then the warlock VC. And just like the warlock, if you die in the first 3 nights you have no chance of winning (basically).

Quote:

REVEAL: Alignment. The alignment (good/evil) of each player is revealed upon death.


As stated, the player's role will not be revealed on death. This is totally fine, but just so you're aware, often players on these forums shy away from anything other then full reveal.
Also, I'm assuming the cult leader and warlock will reveal as Orange. How will the cursed reveal - is it dependent on whether or not he's converted, or is it always green?


For balance, hard to say, but looks reasonable. It looks like you'll have approximately 1/3rd evil. Private messaging favors good, I think, and limited reveal, neutrals, and unknown roleset favors evil. Depends on the exact roles used, and probably seating positions, to some degree.
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Hi Robb... thanks for your comments questions. I'll try to answer them here.

Robb wrote:
Some of these points have been mentioned already.

Quote:

BODYGUARD: Each Night, pick a player (not yourself) to protect. All attacks that Night vs. that player will fail. You can't pick the same player twice in a row.

"All attacks" - does that also mean brutals?


Yes...

Robb wrote:

Quote:

GHOST*: If you're killed, you'll still be able to vote (but not communicate) in future Day phases.

As murph mentioned, if the ghost is posting his votes in the thread, then there is a non-zero chance that the village could try to communicate with the ghost "Eg: Ghost - use morse code for your votes, with votes for X being dots and Y being dashes". Probably not a huge issue in this game, since they're a villager and don't have extra info. You can circumvent this by limiting the ghost to X votes a day, or having their vote be placed in cassy and manually added to the tally.


Hmm... I see what your saying, but I don't mind if players try to game the ghost system. However, the ghost will only be able to [vote REALPLAYER] and that's all.

Having the ghost vote without the village being aware is an interesting variant. But, I think the point of the ghost is to help the village.

Robb wrote:

Quote:

HUNTER Brutal: After being attacked, you can attack another player. You must pre-select your target. Brutal is OPTIONAL.


Use of the word "attacked" for the trigger makes this ability less than clear. If they're attacked, but the bodyguard blocks, does their brutal trigger? What if they're lynched. I'm guessing you mean "After being killed", but if not, you may want to clarify.
Also, there is no mention of parity here. (eg: Normally, hunter on BGG means "in a 1v1 situation at game end, if the last two players are wolf and hunter, the hunter wins the game for the village"). Not sure if that's a deliberate omission, or not.. and if it's deliberate, consider changing the name from "hunter" to... I forget the BGG standard name for "self-aware brutal good". Something to do with an ax, maybe?


Yes, hunter is a parity hunter. I didn't mention that because it seems to be the standard for that role in the BGG list of roles thread. But, I will edit above role list to specify that.

Since your brutal triggers when you die, no, it won't trigger if the bodyguard protects you. Hence the term "ATTACK".. the wolves attack their target and they usually die, baring some other role protecting them, saving them (witch with potion, not in this game) or them being tough.

Robb wrote:

Quote:

SEER: Each Night, pick a player to scan. That player's race (human/non-human) will be revealed to you. Note that some roles may cause the scan to be incorrect.

Does the ghost appear as "human"? The cursed?
Minor nit, but it may be easiest just to list all the roles that the seer gets a hit on ("Will receive a positive view on wolves or the lycan"), rather then saying that he scans for "human", and then listing the race of every other role.
Also, you didn't state whether or not the seer gets a n0 view. And while normally that view is random, in games that try to simulate RL games sometimes it's not, so you'll probably want to specify.


Good point, I will add that info to the seer for the particular roles. I will also specify the N0, the seer does get a random Human view.

Robb wrote:

Quote:

APPRENTICE SEER: If the Seer is killed, you will assume its duties. You will not inherit any scan information.

Does the Apprentice seer get a view the night that the seer is killed (if the seer is killed at night)?


Yes... the Apprentice seer will put in their view target every night. If the seer dies they will get the view. So, they also know who the original seer was, assuming only one person dies that night.

Robb wrote:

Quote:

RED WOLF: You're a werewolf. If you're lynched, you'll get to attack one of your accusers before dying.

What if the red wolf is brutalled, or NK'd? (Imposter may have selected Red Wolf)


Nope, only if killed via lynch votes. As far as the imposter picking the Red Wolf and the Red Wolf getting lynched, there are two options. I favor the Red Wolf still getting their revenge kill, and then the Imposter becomes the Red Wolf.

Robb wrote:

Quote:

IMPOSTER: Pick a player at the start of the game. If you're attacked at Night, that player will be attacked instead, and if he/she is killed, you'll assume that player's role.


If the seer dies, and the Imposter takes over, does the Apprentice seer also activate? Does the Imposter get a view the night he takes over for the seer, if the seer dies at night? What happens if the Imposter picks the brutal hunter or red wolf, and that person has their brutal set on the imposter?


All role changes happen simultaneously so in the event that the Seer is night killed and the Imposter becomes the Seer, since there was always a Seer in the game, the Aprentice Seer's target doesn't get revealed to them. however, the Imposter will get the original Seer's view for that night only. They will NOT get all previous night's views.

Since the Imposter becaomes the other role as soon as that role dies, if it is a brutal role, the brutal will take place after the Imposter becomes them so the brutal will not kill the Imposter. No seppuku allowed.

Robb wrote:

Quote:

CULT LEADER: You are human/evil. Each Night, pick a player to convert. If the game reaches the point where all living players are in the cult, you win.


I think that if I were the cult leader I would claim D1. The wolves have no incentive to kill me, and in fact, they want me to reach my VC, because then I leave the game and it brings them closer to parity. The village doesn't want to lynch me... the only question is, will they



See, all that thought is what makes the Cult Leader interesting. however, it seems it isn't popular with both commenters here so far. So, I am open to not including it. But, as you said, it is a "maybe" role... which I think makes it more interesting.

Robb wrote:

Quote:

REVEAL: Alignment. The alignment (good/evil) of each player is revealed upon death.


As stated, the player's role will not be revealed on death. This is totally fine, but just so you're aware, often players on these forums shy away from anything other then full reveal.
Also, I'm assuming the cult leader and warlock will reveal as Orange. How will the cursed reveal - is it dependent on whether or not he's converted, or is it always green?


Hmm... if no one wants to play partial reveal, I guess the game won't fly. But, I've played this roleset and it was quite a lot of fun and seemed very balanced. It did turn out that we had a warlock, which meet his VC, but not a cult leader.

Cult Leader and Warlock both reveal as evil. Cursed reveals as good unless he has become a wolf, then he reveals as evil.


Robb wrote:

For balance, hard to say, but looks reasonable. It looks like you'll have approximately 1/3rd evil. Private messaging favors good, I think, and limited reveal, neutrals, and unknown roleset favors evil. Depends on the exact roles used, and probably seating positions, to some degree.


Thanks... for all your questions and comments. Keep em coming.

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Edited opening post to clarify who Seer sees as wolf, N0 view info, and Apprentice Seer info. Also, specified that Hunter is a parity hunter so there will be a village win if the last two players are wolf/hunter.

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Robb wrote:
Quote:

HUNTER Brutal: After being attacked, you can attack another player. You must pre-select your target. Brutal is OPTIONAL.


Use of the word "attacked" for the trigger makes this ability less than clear. If they're attacked, but the bodyguard blocks, does their brutal trigger? What if they're lynched. I'm guessing you mean "After being killed", but if not, you may want to clarify.
Also, there is no mention of parity here. (eg: Normally, hunter on BGG means "in a 1v1 situation at game end, if the last two players are wolf and hunter, the hunter wins the game for the village"). Not sure if that's a deliberate omission, or not.. and if it's deliberate, consider changing the name from "hunter" to... I forget the BGG standard name for "self-aware brutal good". Something to do with an ax, maybe?
From what I remember, it's usually called Vigilante, or to differentiate from the several different types of vigilantes, just Brutal Villager.
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pilotbob wrote:
Robb wrote:

Quote:

REVEAL: Alignment. The alignment (good/evil) of each player is revealed upon death.


As stated, the player's role will not be revealed on death. This is totally fine, but just so you're aware, often players on these forums shy away from anything other then full reveal.
Also, I'm assuming the cult leader and warlock will reveal as Orange. How will the cursed reveal - is it dependent on whether or not he's converted, or is it always green?


Hmm... if no one wants to play partial reveal, I guess the game won't fly. But, I've played this roleset and it was quite a lot of fun and seemed very balanced. It did turn out that we had a warlock, which meet his VC, but not a cult leader.

Cult Leader and Warlock both reveal as evil. Cursed reveals as good unless he has become a wolf, then he reveals as evil.
I wouldn't shy away from doing partial reveal just because it might get less people interested at first, especially if you think it's a good part of the set. Some partial reveal sets have gotten pretty popular.
However, it is true in general that the less role reveal on death a set has, the harder it is to get people to sign up the first time.
As a counter example, though, saberwolf just recently put up a 13 player set with partial reveal(only alignment), that got pretty popular.
There have also been more people playing the standard 9er, which is no-reveal.
So don't discard it if you think it makes sense for the set.
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Phelanpt wrote:
pilotbob wrote:
Robb wrote:

Quote:

REVEAL: Alignment. The alignment (good/evil) of each player is revealed upon death.


As stated, the player's role will not be revealed on death. This is totally fine, but just so you're aware, often players on these forums shy away from anything other then full reveal.
Also, I'm assuming the cult leader and warlock will reveal as Orange. How will the cursed reveal - is it dependent on whether or not he's converted, or is it always green?


Hmm... if no one wants to play partial reveal, I guess the game won't fly. But, I've played this roleset and it was quite a lot of fun and seemed very balanced. It did turn out that we had a warlock, which meet his VC, but not a cult leader.

Cult Leader and Warlock both reveal as evil. Cursed reveals as good unless he has become a wolf, then he reveals as evil.
I wouldn't shy away from doing partial reveal just because it might get less people interested at first, especially if you think it's a good part of the set. Some partial reveal sets have gotten pretty popular.
However, it is true in general that the less role reveal on death a set has, the harder it is to get people to sign up the first time.
As a counter example, though, saberwolf just recently put up a 13 player set with partial reveal(only alignment), that got pretty popular.
There have also been more people playing the standard 9er, which is no-reveal.
So don't discard it if you think it makes sense for the set.


I agree with this - personally, I think partial and no reveal can make for very interesting games, and lead to more false-claiming and counter-claiming, which are fun aspects of WW. The point was made just FYI, and to ensure the wording on the rules was complete... you absolutely shouldn't feel pressured to change it just because it isn't the "norm" .

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Added a bit more info about the virtual table, that you can't move.

Also considering a role, based on a question above that is allowed to move their seat at the table (maybe once, or maybe every other day)... maybe the Socialite or something. Thoughts?

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pilotbob wrote:
Added a bit more info about the virtual table, that you can't move.

Also considering a role, based on a question above that is allowed to move their seat at the table (maybe once, or maybe every other day)... maybe the Socialite or something. Thoughts?

BOb


I think it would have to be an attribute (could be applied to a good or an evil player), rather then a role with a known alignment. Otherwise the player can easily become a known good (or evil).
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Phelanpt wrote:
Robb wrote:
Quote:

HUNTER Brutal: After being attacked, you can attack another player. You must pre-select your target. Brutal is OPTIONAL.


Use of the word "attacked" for the trigger makes this ability less than clear. If they're attacked, but the bodyguard blocks, does their brutal trigger? What if they're lynched. I'm guessing you mean "After being killed", but if not, you may want to clarify.
Also, there is no mention of parity here. (eg: Normally, hunter on BGG means "in a 1v1 situation at game end, if the last two players are wolf and hunter, the hunter wins the game for the village"). Not sure if that's a deliberate omission, or not.. and if it's deliberate, consider changing the name from "hunter" to... I forget the BGG standard name for "self-aware brutal good". Something to do with an ax, maybe?
From what I remember, it's usually called Vigilante, or to differentiate from the several different types of vigilantes, just Brutal Villager.


The Vigilante is a Team Good player (usually), that has a OPG NK.
The Woodcutter is Brutal, with no Parity value.
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Robb wrote:
pilotbob wrote:
Added a bit more info about the virtual table, that you can't move.

Also considering a role, based on a question above that is allowed to move their seat at the table (maybe once, or maybe every other day)... maybe the Socialite or something. Thoughts?

BOb


I think it would have to be an attribute (could be applied to a good or an evil player), rather then a role with a known alignment. Otherwise the player can easily become a known good (or evil).


Right, I was just thinking that after I posted. I'll have to think about it some more.

But, if no one sees any glaring issues with this role set, I'm probably going to throw it up on Cassie and see what type of interest it gets. I'll wait till the weekend to see what other comments I get.

Thanks so far for the questions which have helped me fine tune the rules. Keep em coming.

BOb
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