Recommend
9 
 Thumb up
 Hide
10 Posts

Reluctant Enemies» Forums » General

Subject: Comparative complexity of this system rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Timothy Young
United Kingdom
Keighley
West Yorkshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi folks,

Having a good look at this game at the moment as the region covered is one that particularly interests me - my grandfather served in Palestine during the war - and I do enjoy operational level combat games.

How difficult is OCS to learn and play? I have had a quick look at the rule book online and obviously this is a detailed game, but how does it compare to other wargames?

For example, I have played the Columbia Games EastFront II and recently been learning the GMT game France '40 and the CDG Unhappy King Charles!. Is the system on a similar level to any of these, or more complex still?

Many Thanks.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gerry Palmer
United States
St. Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is an opportunity for you to enjoy a great game system. Reluctant Enemies, as you may know, will include a primer for learning OCS. I think the RB is solid. It's gone through four versions and has an excellent glossary and index. Most OCS players will agree with two thoughts about the system: it plays easier than it reads, and that it is fairly easy to play, but harder to play well.

The system rewards repeated play due to the fact that it is 'deep'. I avoided it because of its perceived complexity for years but finally took the time and effort to do what you did--studying the rulebook. Most of us who play jumped in with games that were not as geared to the beginner as RE will be. Therein lies the opportunity for you and others who jump onboard with this coming OCS release.

I haven't played EastFront II so can't speak to that. It's been a long while since I've played Unhappy King Charles but I would think that it is more complex than that. I have played France '40 and would say that it is more complex than that, too. However don't let that keep you from Reluctant Enemies. Especially since you have a connection due to your family background.
13 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim F
United Kingdom
Birmingham
West Midlands
flag msg tools
Who knew trench warfare could be such fun?
badge
Ashwin in front of Tiger 131
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

I think OCS is easier to get a handle on than UKC. I love UKC but the rules aren't the tightest. Even though I play it (relatively speaking) quite a lot, I still need my home made turn sequence to remind me to include everything and at what point. The sequence for OCS is more intuitive and once I start playing it flows quite naturally.

OCS always gets cited as a difficult game to learn, I don't think it is. If you can get someone to teach you via vassal of ftf it is even more straightforward. The difficulty with OCS is to play it well.
13 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
武士に二言無し
Italy
Caravaggio near Bergamo near Milano
Europe + Earth + Via Lactea
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ashiefan wrote:
[...] The difficulty with OCS is to play it well.


+1 ... and find players that play it well!

F.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gerry Palmer
United States
St. Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, as others can attest, don't look over here!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Miikka Rytty
Finland
Helsinki
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If you can handle EastFront and the idea of tackling a thicker ruleset does not scare you, then you will be fine. The rules for OCS are more complex than those in EastFront or France '40. I have not played France '40 (I have not played France '40 but I am familiar with several similar Simonitch designs). By a Harrison-Stetson estimation, I say that OCS rules about twice as complex. The basic subsystems are very simple in general but there are some subtleties and the interplay between the systems generates variation. If you are unsure, then you should check MMP's support page for The Gamers as the latest system rules can be found there.

Also after you have learned OCS system, then you can play any other OCS game with a minimal investment (non-monetary at least).
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Curtis Baer
United States
Baltimore
Maryland
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmb
Tim,

I agree with the others who have posted here. OCS can be hard to learn to play well, especially by just reading the rulebook. This is why we put so much time and effort in developing the "OCS Starter Guide".

Chip Saltsman has written a comprehensive 16 page after action report of the first turn of a Reluctant Enemies game. It is well illustrated, and explains step-by-step how the game is played. It is full of rules citations and explanations. In addition, he has prepared "Newbie" sidebar notes explaining various aspects of play to allow understanding of the system as a whole. An understanding of the importance of the particular sequencing of the phases and segments of play in OCS is hardest to grasp. The Guide will go a long way to help a new player feel comfortable and competent with the play of this system. The Guide is the next best thing to having an experienced player over your shoulder teaching the game.

Because of The Guide learning the OCS does not have to be a mysterious chore ever again. Once you've learned the OCS then you have a great system to play. Games are being developed on a regular basis, and the system is well supported here on BBG and over on ConSim World (ERA: World War II Games Series Series / Operational Combat Series - OCS).

And let's not forget that Operation Exporter is a really interesting military campaign, that thankfully makes a great gaming situation. I have prepared an historical commentary that I think you would be interested in, and I've compiled a comprehensive Order of Battle. There are two sets of players notes included.

I know I can't help but be prejudiced, however, I feel you will be well served by your purchase of RE and thank you in advance for your pre-order.

CHB
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
chris gammon
United States
Elk Grove
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi Curtis. I started reading through the starter guide and got confused by something in the 2nd paragraph. It reads in part "My roll of 10 (2d6) for supply gets me 3.5 Supply Points..." "I place 1 SP in Amman...and 2 SPs in Haifa..."

What happened to the two tokens? Am I missing something very basic with supply (I did a read-through) or did the two tokens get forgotten?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Damon Baume
Australia
Lismore
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is an error. The Starter Guide should have said "...and 2.5 SPs in Haifa..."

See the errata found at the Gamers website:

RE Starter Guide Errata

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Smith
United Kingdom
Wigton
Cumbria
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ha, ha! 16 page after-action report of the first turn says a lot!

Learning this now for my first ever game of OCS. Two days to get geared up from a standing start. The other guy is also a newb. Who will win the battle of preparation, which could be as important as the on-map business...?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.