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Subject: I'd like to Replicate some Perfection too! (Caissas can suck it!) rss

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Corwin David
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• Jinteki: Replicating Perfection (Trace Amount)
• Total Cards: 49

Agenda (12)
• Braintrust (What Lies Ahead) x3
• Clone Retirement (Second Thoughts) x3
• Nisei MK II (Core) x3
• Profiteering (Second Thoughts) x2
• Priority Requisition (Core) x1

Asset (11)

• Encryption Protocol (Trace Amount) x3
• PAD Campaign (Core) x3
• Sundew (Mala Tempora) x3
• Melange Mining Corp (Core) x2

ICE (19)
• Himitsu-Bako (Opening Moves) x3
• Wall of Thorns (Core) x1
• Swordsman (Second Thoughts) x1
• Archer (Core) x2
• Tollbooth (Core) x2
• Enigma (Core) x3
• Ice Wall (Core) x2
• Rototurret (Core) x2
• Grim (Opening Moves) x1
• Wall of Static (Core) x2

Operation (3)
• Hedge Fund (Core) x3

Upgrade (4)
• Akitaro Watanabe (Core) x2
• Midori (Future Proof) x2

Theory- The Rope-a-dope
Most runners, especially good ones, know the value of asset based economy and use their economy to counter that. Using Encryption Protocol, I hope to make the assets expensive to a point of frustration. I decided to use the RP ID because it forces runs on central servers in order to deal with the assets, meaning the runner will have to decide ahead of time to save credits, spend clicks wisely and then kill the assets. The “rope-a-dope” comes into play because the two options for the runner are both bad:

1. They kill my assets, spending their time and money destroying things that are of little cost or consequence to me. The time and economy spent on these endeavors will create a window to score agendas behind a small amount of decent ICE.

2. They ignore my assets in favor of trying to score agendas quickly. This means I have the economy to support the ICE I have and can place serious road blocks in the way of any runner suite. Midori adds to this by forcing them to evaluate the possibility of me replacing an ICE they know is there with (potentially) any ICE in existence. This has been especially brutal when I slap down an Archer, swordsman or Rototurret. Most recently, my success with this build is because Midori and Himitsu Baku basically tell Caissa’s (and parasites) to eat poo.

Midori and Watanabe: These two characters typically end up sitting on R&D through the game. The combo of these two means switching ICE is happening more frequently and the runner has to constantly re-evaluate their runs. While these two are a lot of fun and effective to play and the look of frustration on my opponent is priceless, the deck can operate without them. Dedicated Server was in the original build, but I dropped it in favor of general economy cards.

ICE Suite: Most of the ICE is for surprise factor to combo with Midori, the rest is efficient or early game ICE.

ICE Wall: Could probably be dropped for paper walls. Open for suggestions on what to use the 2 influence for.

Enigma: Great in RP, especially before the runner gets set up. Instead of paying 1 click for hitting a central, pay 2 clicks instead.

Grim, Roto, Archer: These 3 are great ICE on their own, and can really punish a reckless runner. With Midori these ICE are crazy good and even the best runners can find themselves losing programs on what they thought was going to be a routine R&D Run.

Tollbooth: Raw stopping power with economy punishment. It’s still one of the best ICE in the game. Sure, it sucks it to Femme, but what doesn’t?

Swordsman: I’ve killed several Crypsis with this card. Worth a 1 of even without Midori, with Midori I’ve considered adding a second.

Wall of Thorns: This ICE has, accidentally, stuck in this build from when I was playing Chum. I may go back to playing Chum, but for the time being I’m willing to take suggestions on a replacement for this. It’s just too expensive and the damage isn’t really important to me.

Assets:
Pretty self-explanatory. Make money. The all-star here is Encryption Protocol: it makes the assets that much more annoying and helps Midori and Watanabe stick around.

Agendas: These are pretty easy choices to understand. Profiteering for money and for Archer, Clone Retirement to clear out the bad pub from Profiteering and to feed Archer, also. Nisei is the all-star agenda for me. I usually save an Archer for a remote mostly to tax the runner. Having a scored Nisei means breaking an archer 2 times, plus whatever other ICE is protecting my tower server.

Play Style:
I would say this is similar to other “tower” builds where I protect my centrals and have a 2-4 ICE remote to score from. Midori and Watanabe tend to be played on R&D, but if the opponent seems to run on your remote every time you play something there the upgrades could easily find their way to the remote. I have yet to protect my Assets and have never regretted it. I either want the runner to be baited into running on them or not, so ICE doesn’t really make sense to play on them.

I welcome any feedback from my fellow Netrunners. I have been successful with this deck against most builds, Reina Roja has been especially weak against this build. It is weakest in a matchup against a runner playing multiple Account Siphons, but it’s not an auto-loss. Account siphon typically means I can’t rez my ICE and they use my money to blow up my Assets. Sad times had by all.
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Balthasaar
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>>ICE Wall: Could probably be dropped for paper walls.
>>Open for suggestions on what to use the 2 influence for.

2xCorporate Troubleshooter works great w/a Midori surprise Archer/Grim.

On the Off-The-Grid (which I love in RP) thread they were discussing how Interns can be used to build ice-towers or recover economic assets in RP, It would work even better here w/ the Encryption Protocols.
'Hmm, you just went through 2 clicks, 2 ice, then paid 4 to trash my Sundew - Lemmie just put it right back'
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Grish Noren
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Bastion or Eli over Wall of Thorns?

I get what you're saying about it being really expensive for what it does, but every now and then it does something, right?

I made the choice of 1 Eli and 1 Ice Wall over 2 of either just to keep it varied. Also, getting the runner to spend clicks is awesome for this deck if you embrace work compression at all, which I'm not sure that you're doing since you focus mostly on taxing runner with ice.

// Questions

Anyhow, Encryption Protocol. How much does that do for you during the game?

And, are traps just not worth it in your meta?

// My Thoughts

Used to run Akitaro, but never tried Midori. I think I'd find the re-rezzes to be too expensive over time given my experience in the past. You do run profiteering for econ though. So maybe that's ok. Even if you do have the money, if either of those sys-ops get trashed you lose utility and a lot of that surprise factor.

Still, I'd have to play it before saying I didn't like it. I certainly do enjoy blowing up rigs from Jinteki, it has the benefit of turning weak ice back on.

At the very least, this is well aimed at the current meta.
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Corwin David
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I like both of those ideas a whole lot. My issue is with trying to find space to fit it all. I feel like the ICE wall influence is stuck in ICE because I can't free up card slots easily.
 
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Corwin David
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gumOnShoe wrote:
// Questions

Anyhow, Encryption Protocol. How much does that do for you during the game?

And, are traps just not worth it in your meta?

// My Thoughts

Used to run Akitaro, but never tried Midori. I think I'd find the re-rezzes to be too expensive over time given my experience in the past. You do run profiteering for econ though. So maybe that's ok. Even if you do have the money, if either of those sys-ops get trashed you lose utility and a lot of that surprise factor.

Still, I'd have to play it before saying I didn't like it. I certainly do enjoy blowing up rigs from Jinteki, it has the benefit of turning weak ice back on.

At the very least, this is well aimed at the current meta.


Midori works well even with the rez costs because you don't have to switch, just do it when it's beneficial. With Watanabe those costs become more manageable.

1. Encryption Protocol: I find it to be super useful when it comes to making sure the runner either can't or won't want to trash my upgrades. It has the added benefit of making the economy assets better too. Worst case scenario the runner spends 3 and a click and gets rid of a single EP (unless there are multiples, which is hilarious).

2. Traps: I was running traps until this iteration of the deck. I found that they either didn't hit, didn't matter when they did hit and were a drain on my economy. Card slots in this deck come at a premium so if it's not pulling its weight it gets cut. Unfortunately, traps fell into this category.

Eli is a great, great call out. I will definitely be making that change for ICE wall.
 
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I was looking for an agenda scoring Jinteki deck. Cutting traps sounds like a better plan than most.
 
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Daine .

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I'd really recommend against profiteering. It's a great agenda for rush decks, but you're playing a taxing RP and bad pub really takes away from that. Clone retirement can get rid of your bad pub, but I often find that I'm using one clone retirement to get rid of a bad pub I got from another being stolen.

I'd also recommend you trade the melanges for something else. Marked accounts and private contracts are both excellent options.

If you're running akitaro anyway, chimera is a great ice to have to rush out an early nisei. I'd find room for a third akitaro if you go this route though.

I always recommend corprate troubleshooters in decks that run archer, grim, or rototurret, but I'm not sure how rich your deck runs. If you have enough, no single card will score you more knockout blows than that one card (N.B.- the strength lasts until the end of the turn so combos very well with your niseis. I've won quite a few games by making a chimera a 10-strength code gate on game point).
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Michael Redston
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Chimera isn't that great in an AI/insta-Parasite dominant meta.
 
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Corwin David
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Daine wrote:
I'd really recommend against profiteering. It's a great agenda for rush decks, but you're playing a taxing RP and bad pub really takes away from that. Clone retirement can get rid of your bad pub, but I often find that I'm using one clone retirement to get rid of a bad pub I got from another being stolen.

I'd also recommend you trade the melanges for something else. Marked accounts and private contracts are both excellent options.

If you're running akitaro anyway, chimera is a great ice to have to rush out an early nisei. I'd find room for a third akitaro if you go this route though.

I always recommend corprate troubleshooters in decks that run archer, grim, or rototurret, but I'm not sure how rich your deck runs. If you have enough, no single card will score you more knockout blows than that one card (N.B.- the strength lasts until the end of the turn so combos very well with your niseis. I've won quite a few games by making a chimera a 10-strength code gate on game point).


Profiteering: I normally only use profiteering for 1 bad pub, so just to keep me in the game. With 2 Profiteering, the most I would generate in one game is 2, plus any clone retirements that are stolen. I can say that 1 is manageable, but you're right that it's a huge detriment to have many and no reliable way to remove them. I'll try it with unorthodox predictions and let you know how I fair.

Melange: This is a product of testing. I definitely agree that the cards you mentioned are excellent choices. In the "tower" build I've always favored melange because it acts as a trap or target that the runner has to deal with. If you play it down in my tower, they may spend resources running on it thinking it's an agenda. If they don't, I'll use it and it will become a target or fuel my economy to play big ICE. Private Contracts is a great choice for a similar burst effect but lacks in the big target criteria.

Chimera: I just don't like Chimera. It could be good in certain situations but I'm not a fan.

Corporate troubleshooter: Probably a good choice. I may try it and report back.
 
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Joel Tamburo
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Don't be so quick to discount little Chimera. It is a dirt cheap ETR ICE that only an AI,Femme, Rielle or a Parasite/Datasucker can get past. Sure it is not long term ICE but it is wonderful early game ICE that can keep the Runner out of sensitive places while you gear up. In a way I always wondered why it is not Jinteki faction ICE because what it does is so Jinteki.

Also, now that Swordsman is out Corp has a cheap combo of ICE (Swordsman/Chimera) that is troublesome to the Runner, as a lot of the time only an AI can get past Chimera and Swordsman kills AIs dead - on contact. Yes you can Femme one or both of them but that credit exchange favors the Corp not the Runner.
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Chimera works great if you have Akitaro (or dedicated server). As was mentioned, if your opponent runs Parasite, watch out. However, forcing them to spend parasite on Chimera isn't that bad.

You might want to try Trick of Light with Ice Wall before you remove them. If you do, definitely spend the 2 influence on a bioroid ice. Those are great harsh ice.

You might also consider Celebrity Gift if you don't have many surprises in the deck.
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General Norris
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I ran this to a local tournament and I think it's the most powerful base you can build right now, it's just lacking in the trick department.

3 Ninsei MkII
3 Corporate War
3 Braintrust
2 Clone Retirement

3 Wall of Thorns
3 Ichi 1.0
2 Grim
3 Himitsu-Baku
3 Chum
3 Pop-Up Window
2 Elli 1.0


3 Sundew
3 Interns
3 Hedge Fund
2 Akitaro Watanabe
2 Melange, Minging Corp

2 Aggressive Secretary (Nasty!)

4 Free Slots. I tried a bit of everything but nothing seemed great to me.



The 3 Walls of Thorns, 3 Ichis and 2 Grims make central servers painful to bounce from, I never had a problem dropping nasty pieces of ICE around.

You need Interns. It brings backs your Sundews and allows you to build a good server without having liquidity issues as you used to suffer from in Future Proof times.

The problem with my deck was not so much power, I just found it a bit dull and flavourless. I wanted more pressure, more fear, not just winning through Ninsei Mk II, stacking ICE with the power of Sundew or because I hit hard with an Agressive Secretary.

Here's what I've been thinking:

- Corporate Troubleshooter is very cheap influence-wise and is very nasty.
- Midori with Archer is also very scary and Archer rocks.
- I'll remove the Pop-Ups. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE that card but they weren't giving me the money they would normally give me. I think it's simply that Jinteki scares everyone away with Neural Katana and Chum so much that it's not being run over.
- I wish I could replce Wall of Thorns with another annoying ETR piece of ICE.


When Caprice is released, I'll experiment with Encryption Protocol builds but I think it's an evolutionary dead end now that I've had the chance to play without it. I used to think it was going to dominate but now I'm more wary.
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Thomas Berton
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I really recommend using Hokusai Grid. It does wonders in my RP build. It's taxing, both in the card it costs the Runner and the fact that they need to pay 4 to trash it (more if you have Encryption Protocols out). That trash cost helps protect your economy assets.
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Michael Redston
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Dunno, not a fan of Hokusai Grid in non-flatline decks (other than Jinteki Chronos Protocol obviously).
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Corwin David
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kroen wrote:
Dunno, not a fan of Hokusai Grid in non-flatline decks (other than Jinteki Chronos Protocol obviously).


I would agree, Kroen. I think the card slots can be used a little better for the overall goal. It does make sense because it is taxing and costly to remove, so thanks for the suggestion.

General_Norris: It seems like you and I are in a similar place when it comes to this deck. Grim seems like a great card in this deck, and I could see moving this to a 2-3 count instead of 1. Wall of Thorns on the other hand just makes me sad inside: The cost is high so it can't be played early and late game they will have a barrier breaker.

I'm not totally sold on Interns. Has it come through for you in a big way?
 
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DJhedgehog wrote:
Wall of Thorns on the other hand just makes me sad inside: The cost is high so it can't be played early and late game they will have a barrier breaker.

It's a card I like, it's just that Jinteki RP makes such a poor use of it! You want cheap ICE early on so it ends up being placed in a remote but it's so inefficient compared to Tollbooth and Heimdall there that it kind of sucks.

Quote:
I'm not totally sold on Interns. Has it come through for you in a big way?

It has, it has. I'm really liking it so far. And bringing stuff back is really nice.
 
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General_Norris wrote:
DJhedgehog wrote:
Wall of Thorns on the other hand just makes me sad inside: The cost is high so it can't be played early and late game they will have a barrier breaker.

It's a card I like, it's just that Jinteki RP makes such a poor use of it! You want cheap ICE early on so it ends up being placed in a remote but it's so inefficient compared to Tollbooth and Heimdall there that it kind of sucks.


My use of Wall of Thorns has been to buy time for other large ice or make a large ice server just expensive enough to be a problem; but I agree that I always look at the 8 cost and am sad. I imagine braintrust and akitaro can help with this, but you shouldn't need to wait for those to score.

I don't understand the use of pop up window, though. Pop up window is a card for decks where you want to let people through but get money for letting them do it. That's not what you want here and that 3 influence could be spent on plenty of things that cause problems for your opponent; I'd almost argue that a single janus would be a better use of that influence.

Quote:
Quote:
I'm not totally sold on Interns. Has it come through for you in a big way?

It has, it has. I'm really liking it so far. And bringing stuff back is really nice.


Interns has been at best ok for me; I can see it's utility in bringing back trashed econ, but I've never needed more econ... so.

... Anyways, why Chum? It's asking for a jack out an run on a remote. With pop-ups there's some synergy, but yog basically kills that combo and whatever server you put it on.
 
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Glenn Avery
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I'm running a VERY similar deck to this right now and I love it. The one suggestion I have, and it has absolutely made my deck, is to drop some of that out of faction ice to make room for Ruhr Valley. Making that HQ/RD run a double action is murderous.

Also you have gotta ditch the bad pub, RP isn't for card control it's for tempo control so that Grim isn't helping you, better off doing damage or draining their coffers somehow.

Anyways here is my version of this
http://netrunner.meteor.com/decks/DSZfW7CczvNQX5N5y/
 
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Glenn Avery
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yeah Interns is great and the look on someones face when you interns back a sundew after they spent 2 clicks and 2-4 credits trashing it is priceless.
 
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Corwin David
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General_Norris wrote:
DJhedgehog wrote:
Wall of Thorns on the other hand just makes me sad inside: The cost is high so it can't be played early and late game they will have a barrier breaker.

It's a card I like, it's just that Jinteki RP makes such a poor use of it! You want cheap ICE early on so it ends up being placed in a remote but it's so inefficient compared to Tollbooth and Heimdall there that it kind of sucks.

Quote:
I'm not totally sold on Interns. Has it come through for you in a big way?

It has, it has. I'm really liking it so far. And bringing stuff back is really nice.


Heimdall is one of my least favorite pieces of ICE. I think Wall of thorns is better because it's not a bioroid that can just be clicked through. Maybe not better but at least similar and it seems like wall of thorns is more annoying.

gumOnShoe wrote:

My use of Wall of Thorns has been to buy time for other large ice or make a large ice server just expensive enough to be a problem; but I agree that I always look at the 8 cost and am sad. I imagine braintrust and akitaro can help with this, but you shouldn't need to wait for those to score.

I don't understand the use of pop up window, though. Pop up window is a card for decks where you want to let people through but get money for letting them do it. That's not what you want here and that 3 influence could be spent on plenty of things that cause problems for your opponent; I'd almost argue that a single janus would be a better use of that influence.

Interns has been at best ok for me; I can see it's utility in bringing back trashed econ, but I've never needed more econ... so.

... Anyways, why Chum? It's asking for a jack out an run on a remote. With pop-ups there's some synergy, but yog basically kills that combo and whatever server you put it on.



I agree about pop up window. It seemed like a good call at first but the money I made just wasn't able to justify the low cost to access cards and the run a remote.

Interns seems good, but it keeps getting pushed out by other cards when I look at making changes. This deck just has some card-room issues.

Chum seemed to have some synergy with Midori. The low cost meant that I could swap it in to make the runner jack out or swap the ICE behind it to force the runner to jack out or surprise them with a swapped Archer/Grim/Rototurret.

gsquirrelgo wrote:
I'm running a VERY similar deck to this right now and I love it. The one suggestion I have, and it has absolutely made my deck, is to drop some of that out of faction ice to make room for Ruhr Valley. Making that HQ/RD run a double action is murderous.

Also you have gotta ditch the bad pub, RP isn't for card control it's for tempo control so that Grim isn't helping you, better off doing damage or draining their coffers somehow.

Anyways here is my version of this
http://netrunner.meteor.com/decks/DSZfW7CczvNQX5N5y/


Ruhr Valley would be a great addition if it's rez cost wasn't so high. I would rather have a San San and they're the same influence. At least you could score out agendas. If you pay the 6 for Ruhr they're just going to run Archives or whatever server doesn't have Ruhr.

Totally agree about the bad pub. I think I'm going to keep the Grim, maybe add 1 more but profiteering is out for now. Grim is a "must break" ICE, which is pretty taxing. Otherwise, you blow up a program and they have to dig and/or spend money to find the breaker they need. This is amplified by having Midori and having the option to swap the ICE around.
 
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General Norris
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gumOnShoe wrote:
Pop up window is a card for decks where you want to let people through but get money for letting them do it.

I don't think that's the right way to think about Pop-Up window.

It's not a matter of letting the Runner in, it's a matter of making him run on your own terms and Pop-Up is a great way to do that. R&D is going to be run over and over, why not gain from it?

The reason I don't think it's pulling its weight here is that the terms it proposes clash with the terms offered by Neural Katana and Chum. Pop-Up is at its best against early runs and those two guys make them simply not happen.


The thing with Rurh Valley is that it seems...overkill? I feel very safe with my remotes, R&D attacks are the part I don't like as much and I don't think it will work well defending it.



 
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