Xander Fulton
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Particularly with some of the new pilots we are seeing...

It's just...I mean, Interceptors could be really competitive, except SO MUCH of their value comes from their incredible maneuverability. Which is a completely moot point when fighting something with 360-turrets.

There would seem to be two ways to go about addressing this, although I'd prefer to not see these as things to mount TO Interceptors (IMHO, 'combined arms' is a valuable thing to push). Maybe either of:

- Come up with something unusually effective at killing a Falcon, but not much else. A different type of area-effect weapon, maybe? Maybe something like a proximity mine, wider ranged and more focused on destructive capability for non-agile ships? Say, give it range 2...damage increase (3 dice -> 4 dice)...but let the enemy ship roll evades against it.

- Have a system that simply hard-counters the problem element: the 360-turret. Maybe a 'missile' upgrade like...
Quote:
EM Pulse.
Range: 1-3. Attack: 4.
Attack [Target Lock]: Spend your target lock and discard this card to perform this attack. If this attack hits the target ship, the ship receives 1 EM pulse token. Then cancel all dice results.

While the EM pulse token is in effect, the target ship can only fire weapons in its "forward" arc, and cannot fire secondary weapons. An EM pulse token can be removed by the ship spending a 'focus' token. [Cost...given it does no direct damage, and acts kinda like a much-more-situational-ion-cannon, maybe '2'?]
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Guido Gloor
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Aye. I've said it elsewhere, the A-Wing is currently one of my favorite ships. Because I love maneuverability, and the problem that all the ships on the Imperial side have is that their maneuverability just doesn't count.
 
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Dave Kudzma
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We've never had anyone run a successful build with the YT as it always seems like a sitting duck, especially among asteroids.
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Jeremy Steward
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How about this:

Frequency Jammer
Modification: Action: Enemy ships may only attack this ship from their primary firing arc for the remainder of the round. cost 4.

Its too costly and situational to see widespread general use, but would be great for interceptors who will be able to have 2 mods and usually have 2 actions.
 
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Xander Fulton
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Deadwolf wrote:
How about this:

Frequency Jammer
Modification: Action: Enemy ships may only attack this ship from their primary firing arc for the remainder of the round. cost 4.


It's an idea, but I'd point out two issues with it:

1) It's along the lines of what I think we need, but maybe a bit too focused - it's LITERALLY a 'hard counter', in that it directly disables one other thing in the game, and does nothing else. I'm not really sure the game has anything like that, yet. If you were to take (say) 4x Saber-squadron pilots with that...you'd be remarkably effective against dual-Falcon lists - indeed, totally dominating them - but be at a substantial disadvantage to anything else. Ion cannons and turrets work around that by also providing a damage token, and the EM pulse I was suggesting also knocks out other weapons (and I was half thinking of giving the primary attack a -2 while the token is active...but that might be a bit OP)

2) Personal opinion, but I don't really like the idea of whatever-solution-is-proposed arriving as a 'modification' or 'elite talent'; such that it could be equipped on Interceptors, directly. Something that required a TIE Advanced or TIE Bomber to fly along with them to handle the turreted ships...and does effectively handle the turreted ships...would be my preference.
 
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Davyd A
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I find the secret to handling YTs is to be able to always shoot at it as much as possible - and to that end, an Interceptor's manoeuvrability is very useful. The good Falcon players (at least locally) are marked out by their ability to get out of enemy arcs, and both of the new 181st pilots will be much harder to do that to.

No, an Int can't twist out of a Falcon's arc - but it can make sure it's always got a shot, and a 4-Int list ought to be able to take down a Falcon in two or three turns.
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Xander Fulton
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Vagabond Elf wrote:
No, an Int can't twist out of a Falcon's arc - but it can make sure it's always got a shot, and a 4-Int list ought to be able to take down a Falcon in two or three turns.


That's basically exactly what I find happens, yes.

Of course, one Falcon is *half* the enemy list...and you lost 3 of your 4 Ints killing it over 3 turns, which was your *entire* list.
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Derry Salewski
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Can't just like . . . stick some TIE bombers in your list if killing falcons is what you want to do?

They're kinda good at it.
 
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Andreas Krüger
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Rhymer, PT, APT, PTL = 39 points. Pretty deadly, but unfortunately, this is about as expensive as a Falon...
 
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Dave Kudzma
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XanderF wrote:
Vagabond Elf wrote:
No, an Int can't twist out of a Falcon's arc - but it can make sure it's always got a shot, and a 4-Int list ought to be able to take down a Falcon in two or three turns.


That's basically exactly what I find happens, yes.

Of course, one Falcon is *half* the enemy list...and you lost 3 of your 4 Ints killing it over 3 turns, which was your *entire* list.


I guess this is what I'm not understanding.

They've got a YT and something else, you have 4 ships; 3 rounds later it's a 1-on-1 affair. I'm not certain how that isn't even. I guess since we always play with asteroids that might have some bearing on my opinion, however.

Guido says that the manuverability of the Ties is basically moot, but as a recent example during a furball showed, a pilot like Turr can move, fire, then duck behind an asteroid.

So, I would ask Xander: do you usually play with asteroids? If not, then I could certainly see that open space is tough for the Empire.

Also, could someone give me an example of a competitive YT build? I'm a Empire player, almost exclusively, so I've not toyed around with that much.
 
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Andreas Krüger
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locusshifter wrote:

Also, could someone give me an example of a competitive YT build? I'm a Empire player, almost exclusively, so I've not toyed around with that much.


"Han Shot First": Han Solo, Gunner, 2 Rookies + some upgrades
 
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locusshifter wrote:
Guido says that the manuverability of the Ties is basically moot, but as a recent example during a furball showed, a pilot like Turr can move, fire, then duck behind an asteroid.


Couple problems I'm seeing, here:
- You can't move after firing, firing is the last thing that happens in a turn. So if Turr has a shot on the Falcon, the Falcon is shooting back.
- So he can move behind an asteroid if he wants to be harder to shoot in a turn. Great. Except you can still shoot through asteroids, so it just makes him a LITTLE harder to hit, doesn't protect him entirely...and it makes it harder for him to hit the Falcon, too.

locusshifter wrote:
So, I would ask Xander: do you usually play with asteroids? If not, then I could certainly see that open space is tough for the Empire.


Of course you play X-Wing with asteroids, playing it without asteroids is not much of a game, but it's mostly just the collisions that are of concern. They don't block fire.
 
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Andreas Krüger
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Turr can move or barrel roll after an attack.
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Dave Kudzma
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Quote:
- You can't move after firing, firing is the last thing that happens in a turn. So if Turr has a shot on the Falcon, the Falcon is shooting back.


As Andreas pointed out, Turr can move after firing, then he's behind an asteroid for a minimum of 4 agility. Stack on a focus or evade and I do not find him so easy to hit. He's the one that going to be standing against that solo Rebel ship, and if the build would stack him up against 1-2 basic X's, well then I pity them.
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Davyd A
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XanderF wrote:
Vagabond Elf wrote:
No, an Int can't twist out of a Falcon's arc - but it can make sure it's always got a shot, and a 4-Int list ought to be able to take down a Falcon in two or three turns.


That's basically exactly what I find happens, yes.

Of course, one Falcon is *half* the enemy list...and you lost 3 of your 4 Ints killing it over 3 turns, which was your *entire* list.


Maybe - but the dice don't need to break very far your way for it to be trading 2 Ints for the Falcon, and then your manoeuvrability really comes into play. Okay, the Ints can't handle a double-YT list, but that list isn't going to do great against a TIE swarm, so there ought to be less of them in tournaments I would think.
 
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Thamos von Nostria wrote:
Rhymer, PT, APT, PTL = 39 points. Pretty deadly, but unfortunately, this is about as expensive as a Falon...


Scimitar + 2x Cluster Missiles = 24 points, and against the 1 Agility YTs the cluster missile is a good choice.
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Xander Fulton
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Vagabond Elf wrote:
Thamos von Nostria wrote:
Rhymer, PT, APT, PTL = 39 points. Pretty deadly, but unfortunately, this is about as expensive as a Falon...


Scimitar + 2x Cluster Missiles = 24 points, and against the 1 Agility YTs the cluster missile is a good choice.


It's not THAT good a choice. First off, you need to close to range 2 on a ship with a 360-turret. This is less than an ideal place to be! It wouldn't be so bad if you could at least guarantee a kill from a couple shots, but that's a bit hard to do. Odds are that each cluster missile, across both its attacks (assuming you spread them out enough that you can fire them with a target lock AND focus ), will only land 3 hits. So with two cluster missiles, that's 6 hits.

Not bad, but a pretty long way from killing a Falcon.
 
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Andreas Krüger
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Focus is not very good with clusters anyway (which is another reason why they are rarely a good choice). I could be wrong here, but I think the focus can be used on only one of the two attack rolls.
 
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Andreas Krüger
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XanderF wrote:
First off, you need to close to range 2 on a ship with a 360-turret. This is less than an ideal place to be!


The Falcon is only one ship. You need to bring in more ships into range 1 or 2, so the Falcon may gain one extra die, but you gain as many extra dice as you have ships. I would try to either stay away from it or get as close as possible as fast as possible with all ships at the same time.
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Thamos von Nostria wrote:
Focus is not very good with clusters anyway (which is another reason why they are rarely a good choice). I could be wrong here, but I think the focus can be used on only one of the two attack rolls.


Oh, absolutely - I was just pointing that out to try to give the cluster missiles their best possible result.

That's part of my complaint - even using what should be "the best option" for dealing with a Falcon, you don't actually have a very good way of dealing with them.
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