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Warhammer: Diskwars» Forums » Rules

Subject: Movement through friendly units rss

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Robert Harbin
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Maybe I am over-complicating things, as I normally play more rules heavy wargames, but there are only two sentences in the rulebook under the Move section, the major tactical feature of this game.

Can I move through friendly units, or do I have to stop when my disk touches ANY disk?
I understand some units have abilities like Flying and Impact that affects movement behavior, but what about basic units with nothing special?

And if my movement ends on a friendly disk, does this pin my own unit, and force me to attack it?

I looked up the old rules to the original Diskwars and it was pretty clear:Stop as soon as you overlap, and attack if you end your movement on another disk.

I get that Diskwars simplifies the move systems of other miniatures games, but 2 sentences doesn' t seem to cover the eventualities that can occur.

I tried to do the FFG rules dance, where you step to other sections, and try to improvise, based on little snippets attached to other rules, but I am having a rough time with what should be a simple skirmish game.
Thanks
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Ted Von Penguin
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Without the rulebook in front of me logic and intuitiveness would say that impact hurts your own units, but you can pass through them and don't attack them, but if you land on them they are pinned because how can you flip them?

Basic logic here is that units would make way for each other, allowing passing through, not kill their buddies, but impact is essentially big cavalry types trampling everything without that much control.

Again, not referencing the rules atm so someone else should probably confirm or disprove.
 
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Le-Roy Karunaratne
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Impact affects all units. It is listed under the impact ruling.
You can move and land on friendly units (the example setup has overlapping units), I'm not sure if they count as pinned
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Andrey Velkov
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The rule state that you HAVE to stop when you pin enemy units, unless you have relentless.
Impact say that it damages any disk you pin during movement.
If you have impact and flying you are only damaging disk on the last flip.
 
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MGS
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Impact affects friendly units.

You can move through friendly units without having to stop. If you end your movement on top of a friendly unit, that unit is pinned and, even if not activated, it will not be able to activate later in the turn if it remains pinned.

Additionally, although you have to stop if you engage an enemy unit, I'd you start your movement already engaged to an enemy unit, you can continue to move on top of that unit and it will not make you stop unless you move out of it and back again. Essentially, enemy units work the same way as rough terrain.
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Robert Harbin
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Thanks for the replies.
I was only mentioning Impact and Flying as the only rules that talk about movement behavior when encountering friendly units. It seems with FFG rules, you frequently have to reference other rules, like Flying and Impact, to get what they are trying to accomplish.

A disk with Flying ignores other disks and Terrain.Pg 21.So, some disks can move through friendly units.
A disk with Impact deals x damage to any disk, when it pins that unit, including ally units.Pg.9.So, friendly disks can pin ally units.
Moving-a disk must stop moving if it pins an enemy disk.Pg 8.What about ally disks?

I still don't get if a regular disk can move through other units or does it have to stop as soon as it touches any disk,thus pinning it, thus forcing you to attack, friend or foe?

Again, maybe I am making it harder than it needs to be.
Why doesn't it just say:
Any disk can move through friendly units.Any disk that ends its movement on any other disk is pinning.Any pinning disk must fight.?

Or maybe it does and I am not seeing it.
Bringing too much baggage into it?

Thanks again.
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John Bach

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In the preview 'Let there be War' it states:

You can move over your own disks if you choose, though in some cases that will cause them damage. If your disk passes over an enemy unit, it must stop its movement and is then pinning that unit.

therefore you can move through friendly units.
 
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Kirk Mathes
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I agree from what I've seen, you can move over your own units, and you are pinning them if you end your movement on them. But this does not cause them to fight each other in the following melee phase. That would make situations with embattled disks extremely strange.

And of course rules like Impact are the exceptions where you do damage your own units.

I also agree that the rulebook could have been written a little better. By no means the worst I've seen, but it seems like they wrote it from a mindset of, "this is supposed to be a simple, quick game, let's make the rules quick and simple." It seems it would have benefited from more detailed examples, and a few rules explained better.

I recall reading a few things in their previews where they illustrate particulars about how the rules work, but then in the actual rules, there is either nothing about it, or just a couple words in the description of the relevant special rule that could be interpreted that way.
 
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Kirk Mathes
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The exact spots in the rules where I find this are:

From 'Move' on page 8: The disk must stop moving if it pins an enemy disk.

And just under 'Melee Phase' at the top of page 9: An engagement is created each time a disk pins an enemy disk.

in both these it specifies only enemies.
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Frank Müller
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Snigwiddle wrote:
Thanks for the replies.
I was only mentioning Impact and Flying as the only rules that talk about movement behavior when encountering friendly units. It seems with FFG rules, you frequently have to reference other rules, like Flying and Impact, to get what they are trying to accomplish.

A disk with Flying ignores other disks and Terrain.Pg 21.So, some disks can move through friendly units.
A disk with Impact deals x damage to any disk, when it pins that unit, including ally units.Pg.9.So, friendly disks can pin ally units.
Moving-a disk must stop moving if it pins an enemy disk.Pg 8.What about ally disks?

I still don't get if a regular disk can move through other units or does it have to stop as soon as it touches any disk,thus pinning it, thus forcing you to attack, friend or foe?

Again, maybe I am making it harder than it needs to be.
Why doesn't it just say:
Any disk can move through friendly units.Any disk that ends its movement on any other disk is pinning.Any pinning disk must fight.?

Or maybe it does and I am not seeing it.
Bringing too much baggage into it?

Thanks again.


No you are bringing not too much baggage into this question. Your post is more than necessary. I am sure FFG drop the ball in this issue. The rulebook is simply NOT clear and at best ambivalent as the existance of this thread proofs.

The annoying thing here is that even for people which browse first time superficially through the rules (like myself) it was apparent that they forgot to describe precisely what happens when your disk travel on or through friendly disks. One sentence would have been enough to clarify the question. Obviously either they had a VERY odd-thinking rules author doing the rules of WFB or the clarification of this basic rule slipped through their quality control.

 
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Robert Harbin
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For lack of a FAQ, the above conclusions seem most logical, and will be how I play it.

It does not make much sense to be forced to attack your own disks, but you would never know from the rulebook.

If you look at the DiskwarsLegions rules , which I did not play, it is clearly spelled out:

"A Disk must immediately stop movement when it overlaps another Disk, even if the Disk is in the same Army. If you Activate a Disk and move it so that it overlaps an enemy Disk and ends its move-ment on that Disk, this is considered an ATTACK."

See what they did there FFG? Same amount of sentences, right under Rules for Movement.
Not hard to follow or understand.

So this is how I will be doing stuff until something else comes along.

Thank you all for your well reasoned responses.
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Drew Dallas
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Why do they need to spell out something in the rulebook that you don't do? This isn't a problem with the rules it is a problem of assumption.
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Aaron s
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Snigwiddle wrote:
It does not make much sense to be forced to attack your own disks, but you would never know from the rulebook.


Why would the rulebook have to spell out something that obvious especially when it states the opposite?

Anyway, as was already mentioned, in movement on page 8 it says "a disk must stop moving if it pins an enemy disk" therefore friendly disks do not stop movement. That is in addition to what the preview and what the "Melee Phase" sections both say.
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Robert Harbin
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Darksbane and Syphus.
My points were never anything but assumption
I never claimed them to be anything else.
I merely wanted other opinions, to validate or refute my own personal reading ,or misreading of the rules.I wanted to make sure I was not messing something up.

Sometimes its good to know somebody else thought the way I did.
Obviously you don't.
I know the rules don't tell me how to roll a die, or how to open the box, nor do I need them to.
I thought that my assumption was wrong, and stupid, so I came here for validation.
I am glad the rules rang crystal clear for you.
They did not for me.
If it is due to assumption or stupidity, it was so very kind of you to point out my ignorance, either way.
How very cavalier of you.

I apologize for not seeing the preview.
It might have cleared up everything perfectly for me as it did for so many others.

Either way,I came here politely and respectfully seeking help from the knowledgeable , in the place that was designed for it.And I got it.
I came to a resolution.

Thank you for your time, and I apologize for posting something that was beneath you.

You could have been helpful, but you chose to be so, so much more...
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Joseph Ventura
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I was reading through this thread and wonder if anyone actually decided anything about impact and friendly units?

For impact and relentless like for the orcs....does each unit that you flip over and temporarily pin take damage from the impact (ally and enemy)including the final unit you stop on? Also for relentless the wording is a little weird. Can you only flip past one pin and have to stop on the next enemy pin or can you potentially flip as many times as your movement will allow over as many units as you can?
 
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MGS
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This is well established. Impact Affects friendly and Enemy units equally. In combination with Relentless a unit with Impact can continue to move and affect multiple units during its movement. It can even cause impact damage to the same unit multiple times as long as it moves off of the unit and then on again. Hope this helps.
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She-Hulk
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Relentless says the unit doesn't have to stop the first time it pins an enemy unit. This makes me think it can't keep moving the second time it pins a (any) enemy unit.

Thus it could flip over an enemy and, if it can keep moving in such a way that the next flip doesn't leave it pinning, it could then pin a second unit but would then have to stop.
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Actually, it never has to stop when it pins an enemy disk. As you mention, the wording is funny but there is a reason for that. An enemy disk works like Rough Terrain in a sense. If a unit starts its movement already pinning an enemy disk, it can keep moving on top of it and it doesn't have to stop. I suspect this is the very reason the word "first" is used.

Technically, a disk has to stop the "first" time it pins an enemy disk. This is a feature of the movement rule and not primarily of Relentless. So, you have to approach and understand/interpret Relentless from the standpoint of the movement rule. While usually disks have to stop the fists time they pin an enemy disk but a disk with Relentless does not.

Bottom line, a disk with Relentless never has to stop its movement due to pinning enemy disks.
 
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She-Hulk
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Thanks for the clarification! That definitely makes Relentless a pretty stellar ability.
 
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David Harvey
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Okay, perhaps I'm just thick, but can someone just please explain this as if I'm a 10 year old.

When moving a unit with Impact, and DURING its movement it lands on a friendly disc, does that friendly disc that it landed on during its movement take 3 impact damage? Aka, do you pin your own units during your movement, or only when you either end your movement on a friendly unit, or when you end your movement after touching an enemy disc.

Edit: Also to expand on that, as a seperate question, if my own disc is pinning another one of my own discs, can the disc being pinned not be activated, even though its only being pinned by a friendly?
 
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Tooooon wrote:
Okay, perhaps I'm just thick, but can someone just please explain this as if I'm a 10 year old.

When moving a unit with Impact, and DURING its movement it lands on a friendly disc, does that friendly disc that it landed on during its movement take 3 impact damage? Aka, do you pin your own units during your movement, or only when you either end your movement on a friendly unit, or when you end your movement after touching an enemy disc.

Edit: Also to expand on that, as a seperate question, if my own disc is pinning another one of my own discs, can the disc being pinned not be activated, even though its only being pinned by a friendly?


A friendly unit will definitely take impact damage during and not just at the end movement. It could even take impact damage multiple times during the same movement as long as the the unit with impact would move off then back on again.

A disk that is pinned cannot be activated. It does not matter if the pinning disk is friendly or enemy.
 
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David Harvey
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Thanks man, really appreciate this! Just really couldn't get my head around it with the wording in the bloody rulebook lol

One other minor question just to clarify, impact does damage immediately when it gets pinned, and that damage can make a disc take a wound if they have the ability to do so, so with relentless, I could then go off them, go back on again and do an additional amount of damage on top of that wound (if that makes sense)
 
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Exactly.
 
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Kevin C.
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Quote:
Bottom line, a disk with Relentless never has to stop its movement due to pinning enemy disks.


Are you sure about this?

It seems they would have just said, "Doesn't stop when pinning enemy disk."

The "first" bit leads me to believe you get a freebie on the first one, but if you run into a second one, you have to stop.

I think you've made it more complicated than it is by bringing rough terrain in.

Same with Impact.

Can you really just keep hammering the same unit on the same turn by backing up and slamming into it again?

Kevin
 
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natsean wrote:
Quote:
Bottom line, a disk with Relentless never has to stop its movement due to pinning enemy disks.


Are you sure about this?

It seems they would have just said, "Doesn't stop when pinning enemy disk."

The "first" bit leads me to believe you get a freebie on the first one, but if you run into a second one, you have to stop.

Same with Impact.

Can you really just keep hammering the same unit on the same turn by backing up and slamming into it again?

Kevin


Yes. They didn't say that because of definition of Relentless but because of the definition of movement. From the point of view of movement, a disk stops the first time it pins an enemy unit. A disk with Relentless does not have that limitation.

It is a very good question and it doesn't hurt to email FFG for an official answer.
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