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Terra Mystica» Forums » General

Subject: Doomed before I even began rss

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Grzegorz Kobiela
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You are supposed to place your dwellings settlers-style: A-B-B-A.
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Jan B.
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I agree that initial placement is very important and can already impact the final outcome a lot. Still, even after 100 games I will have supoptimal placements. Sometimes you are too creative, sometimes another player is places very unusual. There's no guarantee that you come out strong after the starting phase.
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Enon Sci
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colmmccarthy wrote:
kent_bro wrote:
There's no guarantee that you come out strong after the starting phase.


I know. I just like (in retrospect, of course) that the game is tightly enough designed, that I knew I was doomed at that moment


Odd. You think the game is tightly designed, yet use a player created overlay variant that the designer has consistently said was unnecessary?

In all the threads surrounding this variant, many have suggested that limiting the board could unbalance the options of the various factions as well (a complaint I've yet to see addressed).

I wouldn't know, I've never tried playing with it, but it could put one of the two players at an unexpected disadvantage.
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Aeos James
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I agree that it plays better with a smaller map for fewer players. I have also placed a building and regretted it soon after. Top game, can't wait to play more
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Steve Duff
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colmmccarthy wrote:
The designer may say it's unnecessary, but I and others think the game could have benefited from a two sided map (one for 2-3 players and one for 3-5 players).


Yes, that was a missed opportunity.
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Enon Sci
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colmmccarthy wrote:

This may be just fine for some people, but we much prefer the game when that interaction is taking place - and we simply don't always have 3+ people to play with (as some of us just hate it - it's become quite obvious that this is a very polarizing game).


Like I said, I'm not trying to lecture you on your game play choices. I too was excited about the 2 player variant when I first started reading up on Terra Mystica, but then voices of experience began to give me pause.. like:

tarao666 wrote:
Flyboy Connor wrote:
I don't think it is this easy. The color distribution over the whole map is well-balanced, and you lose the balance with this simplistic removal of the right side (even though you leave an equal number for each color). For instance, the big bottom right area is a place where halflings always want to start, but which mermaids don't care about at all. Looking at what remains of the map, the mermaids have great choices left, but for the halflings there are very few good options.


Exactly, the original variant will punish a lot not only halflings, but dwarves that have 4 grey spaces at tunel distance in the lower right part of the board. Maybe the second variant with only the right half of the board works, but I fear it would punish some other races.

EDIT: I went to take a closer look to the map, and using only the right half board would punish severely the mermaids, whos hexes are very far apart and have a couple inland while in the left half they are very well placed.


http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/975296/the-variant-reviews-t...

Just something to consider.

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Edmund Stormhammer
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Quote:
My OP wasn't even about the variant. It was about how much I liked this game because I knew the instant I pulled my hand away after placing my second dwelling that I was screwed, and how much I respect its design for that. That every move you make in Terra Mystica truly counts

My thinking runs counter to this: its settlers of catan all over again. If "the game" is won/lost picking the race/starting position I see this as a huge black mark on "the game" (in settlers its who is unlucky and rolls to go first). How is that a game, at all? A 4-5 player game of Terra Mystica is 2-3 hours. If I lost before I even started the game has huge problems. Certainly not top 10. Just my thoughts.
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Kristof Bodric
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edmund_china wrote:
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My OP wasn't even about the variant. It was about how much I liked this game because I knew the instant I pulled my hand away after placing my second dwelling that I was screwed, and how much I respect its design for that. That every move you make in Terra Mystica truly counts

My thinking runs counter to this: its settlers of catan all over again. If "the game" is won/lost picking the race/starting position I see this as a huge black mark on "the game" (in settlers its who is unlucky and rolls to go first). How is that a game, at all? A 4-5 player game of Terra Mystica is 2-3 hours. If I lost before I even started the game has huge problems. Certainly not top 10. Just my thoughts.


You're oversimplifying. Yes, it is possible to make such an abysmal pick at the beginning of the game (especially on half a map) that it ruins your game, but since TM is an open info game, you'd have to be really hung-over or inexperienced to do so. Either way, a bit of forward planning should prevent such issues and a fiasco such as the one mentioned by the OP could be considered a learning experience.

Besides, TM and Catan are not even in the same universe strategy-wise, depthwise and otherwise. There is literally no luck in TM, whereas in Catan all rests on the roll of the dice.
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Rollo Tomosi
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Where, exactly, did the placements occur so that you lost before even beginning the game?
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Delwayne Arakaki
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LoL... no, I thank everyone for this discussion!
Actually, I was thinking, wouldn't it have been a better game to ask your son if you could take that particular placement back?
I was thinking... to spend hours playing a game that (in the back of your mind) you were thinking you will lose because of that one tiny initial placement error?
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Eric Engelmann
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If a player felt he had screwed up his evening with a few seconds of poorly thought-out setup, he'd just have to say so, immediately, and my crews would happily let him undo, unless it's a five player game, perhaps, and time was limited. No take backs in tournament play, of course.
 
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