Andrew Calvert
United Kingdom
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Hi guys first time poster and new player to the game (Started over Christmas). Anyway I've been kicking an idea around in my head and I wanted to get some input.

See from playing the game and reading around the forums it seems that right now cloaking is making the Klingons and Romulans more powerful than the Federation or the Dominion (I believe one poster likened the OP events to have turned into Klingons Vs Romulans) because as the game stands it seems to me that evasion is more powerful form of defence than mitigation. So I was thinking what if the speed of the maneuver you picked added that many defence dice to your defence rolls?

For example say the Enterprise picked Straight 5 for it's maneuver
then a Vorcha class fires on it instead of rolling one defence die the Enterprise rolls six, it's normal one from it's agility and plus five extra from its chosen maneuver.

This basically simulates the Enterprise going flat out and been harder to hit as result (a fast moving target been harder to hit then a slower one).

For ships with cloaks the change I would make is that cloaked ships only get the +4 bonus when performing green maneuvers but they don't get any defence bonus from performing green maneuvers when cloaked.

They can gain a defence bonus from maneuvers when cloaked from normal "white" maneuvers however they lose the +4 bonus from been cloaked for that turn (simulating that cloak can't hide the ships power signature well enough at that speed).

For Example the I.K.S. Negh'var while cloaked could choose to either a;

choose Straight 2 (a green maneuver) and if something attacks it gets it's standard +1 dice from its agility and +4 from been cloaked

or B;

choose Straight 4 (a white maneuver) and get it's standard +1 dice from its agility and +4 from choosing Straight 4 if attacked. The cloak however provides no bonus but it doesn't turn off or anything.

With these changes the ships without cloaks (most Starfleet and Dominion ships) have to behave like sharks in that they have to keep moving or they die. This would properly encourage Federation and Dominion fleets to use attack run style tactics while cloaked ships (most Romulans and Klingons) could pick between moving slowly (and keeping targets in there firing arcs for longer) or moving fast depending on the situation

I may well not be the first to have this idea (and part of the reason for this post is to find out if someone suggested something similar) and it might well turn out that once the majority of the expansions are out even one ends up even anyway but what do you guys think? (If nothing else I'm glad to have sat down and write it out, helped clarify the details in my mind).

EDIT: Something I forgot to add was that I was thinking that target locks and secondary weapons that require target locks could maybe negate the bonus from maneuvers. Simulating the idea that the ships computer or torpedoes tracking systems had created a firing solution that countered the added speed of the target.

YET ANOTHER EDIT: Also if the ship collides with an object this would also negate the maneuver bonus
 
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Larry DeStefano
United States
Bloomingburg
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You will see a lot of back and forth on how good or more important cloaking is. I suggested maybe handicapping cloaked vessels by adding a few extra pts to ships that cloak and some people REALLY DIDN'T like it. I'm a little more easier going I say try it. I even wanted to change the rules a little by saying if you do evade add some extra 2-3 die to your agility score but lose some attack die if you shoot. I also thought maybe cloaked vessels should suffer a penalty while shooting as well. Just some ideas I had.

Now for yours......hmmmmmm....I like the idea of cloaked ships sticking to green moves or they void there cloak. How about Green=full cloak, white= half cloak only +2, while red= no cloak totally voided...

Your 2nd idea...maybe something there as well I dont know about a +1 for every click of speed? Maybe 1-2=0, 3-4=+1 and 5+= +2 to your aglity score. but your idea might be fine I just feel +1 for ever notch of speed might be a little too much, but thematically everything you posted kinda matches what we see on the shows.

Now get ready for the firestorm...LOL

Its a good game love the fact that these ideas our out there and they keep coming!!!!! dont stop

Live long and prosper
 
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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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Torrance
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Basic tasks to learn and remember
Learn how to use the templates
Learn how to plot your moves
Deduce where your enemy is going (know enemy movement possibilities)
Try to position your ship(s) to be out of enemy firing arcs while still being able to fire your weapons
Determine the most beneficial action(s) for evading, permiting or concentrating fire
Determine which weapon to best attack with
Determine which is more beneficial spending target locks or converting battle station results

I've found that following the above I have been able to win with either ship in the base set... I am waiting for my expansions to arrive but figure the basic rules of survival will still apply with more ships... At some point hits will occur and a ship or taskforce will be lost.

I am not sure anything really needs to be changed...
 
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Dr Vulcan
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I don't agree that cloak is overpowered.
My last op events (op 3/4) I had a dominion fleet win one, and a fed fleet win the other.

There is a lot of risk to cloak, as you play more I think you will find that to be true.

IE: Federation can reach you turn one and torpedo you or drop antimatter mines on your cloaked fleet (stacking extra moves for mines is hard but possible).

You also take a large hit on your offensive punch for that round if you cloak that round as the other player can take scan/Target lock/battlestations/etc. giving them a good edge in firepower over your defensive move.

Cloak gives you 3/8 * 4 = 1.5 evade average.
Just an evade action can give you 2/3rds of that without losing your shields.

Don't get me wrong, cloak is powerful, but I do not think it is OP at all, especially as the game goes on and you see more and more abilities to counter those 4 defense die (Barrage of fire / Scotty + antimatter mines / cloaked mines / etc.).

I think with your change, you would make the federation battleship builds that I have seen (IE: Ent D + flagship + other) and the dominion battleship builds be far to OP to be playable.

I like the idea, however I think that it just wont work for the game IMO.

------
If just playing with the base set:
Try enterprise D + engage + picard, you can almost fly circles around the klingon ship in the starter
Rule when fighting with federation, never joust, especially against klingons, you will lose. You have better weapon arcs and better tricks, those are your life.
 
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Eugene Connolly
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Okay I am not cutting anyone because I am talking about my learning of the game. At 1st I played it like X-wing and clocking was strong to deal with in the game. However, once I started to play with more upgrades, clocking is not that big any more. Its a learning curve to the game once you get past the clock has a big advantage you will be getting to be one of the better players. I have just starting to get past that one myself.
 
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Larry DeStefano
United States
Bloomingburg
New York
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I say that as far as cloaking rules go, I don't have a problem with them as they are. They work, they are not broken. But I also have no problems with variants. If they enhance the THEMATIC story line (Which is more a matter of personal taste) then I'm okay with that. Which is why I like the idea about speed having an adverse effect on cloaking. Not because cloaks need to be FIXED, but it reminds more of a star fleet battles style game play. The faster you moved the less power you had, and if you went to fast you didn't have enough power for cloak, plus in SFB the faster a cloaker moved the less effective it was, and kinda matches some of the episodes we saw on the shows.
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Andrew Calvert
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Thanks for the replies everyone having played a few test games myself I'm not quite so sure of my idea as before, particularly at speed 3 since none of my cloaking ships have green speed 3 maneuvers. This I felt hurt the cloaking action (which I don't think is OP just powerful and I never intended for my idea in any way to nerf or effect cloaking) mostly because since cloaking requires you to spend an action and my ideas are just based on your maneuvers. so the choice is cloak and earn 4 dice or just move fast and get 3 free dice.

I might keep tweaking it, right now I'm thinking of changing it to been dependent on you having an evasive maneuvers token and then capping at 3 dice and even then I'm not to sure of it, might make everything a bit too similar. No matter though I'm just glad to get this monkey off my back.
 
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Larry DeStefano
United States
Bloomingburg
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Drew C wrote:
Thanks for the replies everyone having played a few test games myself I'm not quite so sure of my idea as before, particularly at speed 3 since none of my cloaking ships have green speed 3 maneuvers. This I felt hurt the cloaking action (which I don't think is OP just powerful and I never intended for my idea in any way to nerf or effect cloaking) mostly because since cloaking requires you to spend an action and my ideas are just based on your maneuvers. so the choice is cloak and earn 4 dice or just move fast and get 3 free dice.

I might keep tweaking it, right now I'm thinking of changing it to been dependent on you having an evasive maneuvers token and then capping at 3 dice and even then I'm not to sure of it, might make everything a bit too similar. No matter though I'm just glad to get this monkey off my back.


That was why I thought 1 speed= 1 agility die was to high. I still think the idea of your move effecting the cloak is a good idea by itself. Just because it fits thematically. Now alot of people say cloak is not overpowered but alot of people say not. I'm okay with it but I like your idea because it will give the cloakers something else to consider and plan on.
 
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Brook Gentlestream
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Long Beach
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What if you simply don't adjust the dice for the cloak, but instead focus on the Target Lock immunity? I think I can recall times in the show when they've detected a cloaked ship by its engine emissions. Hell, Star Trek VI used this to lock on a torpedo.

So, we'll say the Cloak still gets all its defense dice but if it moves too fast, it doesn't retain its immunity to Target Locks. Of course, that really only matters against opponents with a higher Captain Skill.


 
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