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Subject: Lily Chen's passive ability rss

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Peter B
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Hello, All,

I'm concerned that I'm playing the role of Lily Chen incorrectly and was hoping someone could help.

The passive ability on her card reads:
"When you improve a skill, you may immediately improve that skill again."

The Reference Guide reads:
"Lily cannot use her passive ability to improve a skill more than twice. If she improves a skill and already has an Improvement token for that skill, she cannot user her passive ability."

This sounds to me like Lily can take any +1 improvement opportunity and turn that into a +2, and, that she can't use her passive ability to improve skills past a +2.

By the end of our first game attempt. Lily had three improvement tokens on three different skills, all upgraded to +2, which seems excessively generous.

Am I interpreting her ability correctly?
Many thanks!


 
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Daniel Honig
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That interpretation is correct. If she gets a +1 on a skill, it immediately becomes a +2. She cannot have any more than +2 on any one skill, but she can +2 any amount of different skills as long as she gets the +1s for them.

Passive abilities tend to be very strong in general, hers is good if you're having expedition / city specific encounters to improve skills. Unfortunately, doing that means you aren't, say, killing monsters or clearing gates. But it's great for the early game to massively boost your stats.
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Paul S
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DARK IN HERE, ISN'T IT?
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I think so. I think the rather clunky wording on the card amounts to no more than a reminder that there's a +2 limit on improvements.
 
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Rob Wrigley
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Lily is a beast. Her starting location places her within a turn of two of the best ability upgrades and an expedition location. She also starts next door to the very useful Lola, who can use her high Influence to gear Lily up.

Lilly's passive also makes her my favorite replacement character. She can be brought quickly up to speed to fill whatever role your group is lacking.
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Karl Nowak
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robwrigley wrote:
Lily is a beast. Her starting location places her within a turn of two of the best ability upgrades and an expedition location. She also starts next door to the very useful Lola, who can use her high Influence to gear Lily up.

Lilly's passive also makes her my favorite replacement character. She can be brought quickly up to speed to fill whatever role your group is lacking.


She also seems excellent for one or two investigator games, as she can easily upgrade to fill any holes in your group without necessarily being deficient in one area like most specialists are.
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Errol Moo
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Some of the skill improvements come with certain conditions, for example, one of the Feed The Mind spells will allow a chosen investigator to increase a skill at the cost of 1 sanity to the caster.

We played Lily thus: She MAY improve her chosen skill by one additional point. Using that Spell, Lily chose to improve her observation skill by +2, but at the cost of 2 sanity instead of 1.

Is this interpretation correct?
 
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Karl Nowak
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themarxx wrote:
Some of the skill improvements come with certain conditions, for example, one of the Feed The Mind spells will allow a chosen investigator to increase a skill at the cost of 1 sanity to the caster.

We played Lily thus: She MAY improve her chosen skill by one additional point. Using that Spell, Lily chose to improve her observation skill by +2, but at the cost of 2 sanity instead of 1.

Is this interpretation correct?


Nope. Lily's passive is a second effect.

It goes like this: Feed the mind occurs, improving one stat on Lily at the cost of one sanity for the caster, with both of these effects occurring simultaneously. Immediately after, Lily's player has the option to then improve it by another +1 in reaction to having that stat improved as a separate, independent effect. The passive ability is the source of the second +1, not Feed the Mind, so there is no additional cost to the original caster.

Simply put, Lily's passive treats any +1 improvement as a +2 improvement without any change to external costs.
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Peter B
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What great feedback! Thank you all for the confirmation as well as the additional details.
 
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Michael Dillenbeck
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Raejin99 wrote:
themarxx wrote:
Some of the skill improvements come with certain conditions, for example, one of the Feed The Mind spells will allow a chosen investigator to increase a skill at the cost of 1 sanity to the caster.

We played Lily thus: She MAY improve her chosen skill by one additional point. Using that Spell, Lily chose to improve her observation skill by +2, but at the cost of 2 sanity instead of 1.

Is this interpretation correct?


Nope. Lily's passive is a second effect.

It goes like this: Feed the mind occurs, improving one stat on Lily at the cost of one sanity for the caster, with both of these effects occurring simultaneously. Immediately after, Lily's player has the option to then improve it by another +1 in reaction to having that stat improved as a separate, independent effect. The passive ability is the source of the second +1, not Feed the Mind, so there is no additional cost to the original caster.

Simply put, Lily's passive treats any +1 improvement as a +2 improvement without any change to external costs.


This is one of the pieces of text that I always wonder if I am misinterpreting. It says you may improve it again - so if she encounters an improvement that requires her to spend a clue token or make a skill check, does she have to incur the cost twice?

Currently we play that it just means she gets +2 token when improving rather than +1. Really need to keep a journal of these questions as they come up and the situations when the conflicts and confusion occur.
 
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Daniel Honig
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I'm not sure what the confusing part is here:

Imagine there was an ongoing Mythos card that said: whenever you improve a skill, draw and resolve a Mythos card. You go to a city, have an encounter, improve a skill, Mythos card happens. It's pretty clear that the Mythos card was drawn because of the ongoing Mythos effect, right?

Lily's ability says, whenever you improve a skill, improve it again. So you improve the skill, Lily says "Ah wait! A skill improved!" and plops down another +1, which turns into the +2. She then says "A skill improved!" and tries to improve it again, which doesn't work because the skill is maxed, so the ability stops.

As you can see from the Mythos card example, the source of the ability is clear - the trigger was from Lily, so there are no additional strings attached.
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Matt
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Does Lily automatically go up to +2 on a stat after succeeding the test roll, or does she get a +1, then has the opportunity to test it again to bring it up to +2?
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Daniel Honig
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See example in the post above yours. She tests once and receives a +2 token after succeeding the test.
 
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Matt
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Andarel wrote:
See example in the post above yours. She tests once and receives a +2 token after succeeding the test.


I saw that post, but didn't see it as binding. Verbosity said "We currently play that..." I hoping to get something more definitive.
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Daniel Honig
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It is verbose to help people intuit the answer. Improving a skill causes Lily to immediately re-improve a skill, sending her to +2.

EDIT: Whoops, didn't see that the user was named Verbosity. Was referring to my post above.

If you look at "Improving Skills", page 7 in the reference guide, it is clear that paying a test / cost is not part of the process of improving a skill. Rather, the test / cost is what instructs you to start the process - Pay X to trigger a skill improvement (+1), which triggers another skill improvement (+2), which caps at +2.
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Matt
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Sounds good. Thank you.
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AMERIGAMER!
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Don't worry about it. We're choosing random characters Saturday.
madhatter wrote:
Does Lily automatically go up to +2 on a stat after succeeding the test roll, or does she get a +1, then has the opportunity to test it again to bring it up to +2?
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Matt
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Nuh uh... rules say we get to pick our characters. Isn't the game difficult enough to beat? What if we all randomly draw brainiacs? It'll been the quickest game ever. Cthulhu himself versus Team Geezer. That's a fight that won't make it to pay-per-view.
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AMERIGAMER!
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I just lost Lily Chen's card. whistle
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Matt
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davestephens wrote:
I just lost Lily Chen's card. whistle


Whew, good thing you gave me advance notice. Now I can print a backup copy for you. No need to thank me.
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