Matt Thrower
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Looking at the retrospective scenario rules included in expansion #6 I was surprised to see that all the suggestions were made for artistic effect rather than using any of the Hoplite rules.

I know that many of the scenarios in expansion #1 are Alexandrian or Successors era and that Macedonian phalanxes are thought to have been distinct from traditional Hoplites.

But there are several scenarios, most notably Marathon, where traditional Greek Hoplites would have fought. Just curious as to why the Hoplite rules are not put into effect?

I also find it interesting that Hoplites are a Medium infantry type. What then, historically, do the "Heavy" Greek and Spartan infantry units represent? I didn't know there was anything more heavily armed and armoured on Greek battlefields than the Hoplite, and it's curious they don't get the mounted card benefit that Hoplites do?

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Kevin Duke
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It was my impression that the upgrade to include Hoplites in older scenarios does mean to include the Hoplite rules.

And you answered your own question-- things like the Macedonian Phalanx are different from Hoplites, and they get the heavy infantry designation (but not the extra speed of the Mounted Charge).
 
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Russell InGA
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kduke wrote:
It was my impression that the upgrade to include Hoplites in older scenarios does mean to include the Hoplite rules. ...


That's the point. Medium Hoplite Infantry is not used to replace any of the existing units. The "upgrades" are merely for looks. (Orange Medium or Heavy instead of Yellow/Tan Medium Heavy.)

I agree that it would be interesting to retrofit the MHI into the Expansion 1 scenarios where appropriate.
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The other Euro guy
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How does Mounted Charge offer extra speed? I thought it was just an extra dice?
 
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Mark McG
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There are some revised scenarios in Exp.6 Official scenarios anyway.
Platea, Leutra & Mantinea (362BC) are in both Exp.1 & Exp.6

So the retrofit is simply cosmetic unit colour replacement, with the exception of upgrading the Silver Shields from Blue to Red Infantry. All the retrofit scenarios are in the Macedonian era.

Marathon was a rather uncommon 'Hoplite' battle in that it was a deliberate extension of the line (and thinning of the usual Hoplite mass, and had at least some aspect of a charge against the Persian archers.
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Matt G
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ReggieMcFly wrote:
How does Mounted Charge offer extra speed? I thought it was just an extra dice?


You're correct that they only move one space with the Mounted Charge. However, there are two Mounted Charge cards and three Order Medium Troops cards but only two Order Heavy Troops in the deck. That gives the medium hoplites three additional chances to move over the heavies.
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Guillaume Gleize
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About the Hoplit being "only" blue: I first had the same reaction of surprise but then I translated in my mind that even if incredibly courageous and strong, they were from an older era than the Roman elite infantry for example. So they were sligthly less efficient (formations, movements, tactics, metal used for the weapons etc) than the later elite "heavy infantry".

That's only my own "explanation" of the old time best infantry being only blue ... !

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Matt Thrower
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GGleize wrote:
So they were sligthly less efficient (formations, movements, tactics, metal used for the weapons etc) than the later elite "heavy infantry".


I'd totally buy that explanation, were it not for the fact that red infantry appears alongside blue in some scenarios.
 
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Mark McG
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totally
 
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Martin S
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So do we have a historical cut-off date for applying the Hoplite rule? I guess after the Pelopenessian War / before Alexander?
 
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Russell InGA
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Remember the Hoplite rules weren't created until Expansion 6. In X6 you have a lot of Greek on Greek and I guess that they wanted to highlight the special capabilities of the Hoplites.

The second consideration (and an answer to the post just above) is that any number of Greek versus Rome scenarios include (even as just an optional rule) the rule that Greek Medium / Heavy Infantry battle back with only 3 dice. (This represents [as stated in the rule] the increase flexibility of the Roman formations as opposed to the Greek formations.)

So, if you choose you could give Greeks some Hoplites (and their extra couple of activation cards) but would then turn around and allow those Hoplites to battle back against the Romans with only 3 dice! cool

 
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