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Subject: How to Lose Cthulhu Wars: Windwalker rss

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Sandy Petersen
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Windwalker is another strong faction that takes cunning to lose with. Here are a few ways.

A) don't summon Gnoph-Kehs. The first one costs 4, so let the sticker shock dissuade you. This works really well because since your Wendigos are all over the map, when you finally summon Ithaqua you will have zero (0) Monsters available in your army.

B) forget to place Ice Age or don't get the spellbook in the first place.

C) Rhan-Tegoth is immortal, so it's okay to leave him undefended in the middle of a lot of hostiles. Trust me.

D) forget to Hibernate.

E) Alternatively, Hibernate way too early, with more than 3-4 Power left.

A lot of players are discouraged by the cost of Gnoph-Kehs, not realizing that by the time you've summoned them all, they only cost you 10 Power, for 4 three-dice monsters. They then become just about the best deal in the game, combat-wise. Only some Great Old Ones and a big pile of Formless Spawn approach them in effectiveness.
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Joey Larsen
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That last comment is spot on. When I played as Windwalker I never summoned one Gnoph Keh. I was scared of the large up-front investment. I did not win that game.
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Greg Robertson
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This further demonstrates risk versus reward. Yes you are risking a lot of energy to summon the Gnoph-Kehs. However, these units provide you with enormous tactical benefits in mid-late game.

Sandy has done an exceptional job at balancing all of the units in the game. While some units are more expensive they give you more bang for your buck. And yes, I will be using them to their full potential when I play Windwalker.
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René Schep
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Only thing you have to worry about with gnoph-kehs is that you always have at least 1 on the map. So that you don't have to pay the high amount for them again. As long as one survives the cost is manageable.
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Arthur Petersen
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Quote:
Only thing you have to worry about with gnoph-kehs is that you always have at least 1 on the map. So that you don't have to pay the high amount for them again. As long as one survives the cost is manageable.


Really, though, the basic principle for monsters in CW is that they cost one more than their combat value. That's why Cthulhu's units are such a good deal. Most factions have some mitigating factors, but that's the basic idea. Gnoph-Kehs are combat 3, so should cost 4! The only monsters among playable factions with a static combat of 3 are:

Star Spawn (cost 3)
Spawn of Yog-Sothoth (cost 4)
and the Gnoph-Kehs themselves.

So, the first Gnoph-Keh shouldn't even feel like a bad deal!

The monsters I hate summoning because of cost is Hunting Horrors. They are good units, but I think in a perfectly balanced world, they would actually cost 2.5 power or something. But that's not possible.
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Lincoln Petersen
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If you think about it though. I'm sure other factions would LOVE that ability. For instance if Shoggoths had that ability instead of absorbing. or dark young instead of red sign. You just feel this way because crawling chaos can already move 2 so you think it's a rip off.
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Arthur Petersen
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I feel that way because it makes Hunting Horrors be teleporting meatshields. Whoever heard of a meat shield that is the most expensive type of unit in the base game (excepting GOOs) ?

But I still like them. After all, if Crawling Chaos could use Seek and Destroy with Nightguants, it would be way too powerful.

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Arthur Petersen
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devil goo devil

surprise

What if, and this is crazy, but what if, prebattle, if you have the Seek and Destroy Spellbook, you can IMMEDIATELY pay 3 power to "teleport" a Hunting Horror from OFF THE MAP! (plus, you can still place a Hunting Horror from anywhere on the map too).

This would not reduce how much CC has to pay for his units. BUT, it would give him greater flexibility which is sort of his theme!

I wish I had thought of this months ago. Also, to nerf it, you can say it can only work at a gate you control?
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Greg Robertson
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existoid wrote:
devil goo devil

surprise

What if, and this is crazy, but what if, prebattle, if you have the Seek and Destroy Spellbook, you can IMMEDIATELY pay 3 power to "teleport" a Hunting Horror from OFF THE MAP! (plus, you can still place a Hunting Horror from anywhere on the map too).

This would not reduce how much CC has to pay for his units. BUT, it would give him greater flexibility which is sort of his theme!

I wish I had thought of this months ago. Also, to nerf it, you can say it can only work at a gate you control?


You have my support for this one Arthur. I love the idea of being able to summon another Hunting Horror from off the map.
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Arthur Petersen
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Quote:
I love the idea of being able to summon another Hunting Horror from off the map.


The only problem is, this may be too similar to the Dimensional Shamblers' ability (though not identical).

And this late, unless it's a direct balance issue, I doubt there will be any changes this significant. (I don't think hunting horrors or seek and destroy need serious nerfing or boosting).
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Lincoln Petersen
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So you mean now Nyarly players don't even have to prepare and kind of show somewhat that they have scary monsters? THEY just get them instantly they need only pay for them? Yes totally balanced.
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Arthur Petersen
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Quote:

Yes totally balanced.


What? I NEVER said that my idea was balanced. I said that CC doesn't NEED balancing, and so my idea will likely not be implemented.

But, if CC does not have 3 power, he can't do this. It isn't a wildly unbalancing thing. EDIT: Also, by getting seek and destroy before you summon any hunting horrors somewhat telegraphs what you are doing. After all, how often do you see Seek and Destroy among the first three spellbooks (or even 4?) that CC gets? Not often.

This could change that by opening up new strategies. But yes, as I said, probably too late to make a change this big.

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Dave Mendiola
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existoid wrote:
I feel that way because it makes Hunting Horrors be teleporting meatshields. Whoever heard of a meat shield that is the most expensive type of unit in the base game (excepting GOOs) ?

But I still like them. After all, if Crawling Chaos could use Seek and Destroy with Nightguants, it would be way too powerful.


They're only meatshields if you don't decide to bring others. Using Nightgaunts and Flying Polyps can help protect these higher priced units. Remember that Seek and Destroy basically makes their movements free. Using it just once with each Hunting Horror effectively ends up costing the same if they were a 2 cost unit.
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Arthur Petersen
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Quote:
They're only meatshields if you don't decide to bring others. Using Nightgaunts and Flying Polyps can help protect these higher priced units. Remember that Seek and Destroy basically makes their movements free. Using it just once with each Hunting Horror effectively ends up costing the same if they were a 2 cost unit.


Well, yes, it is about reducing the cost of their movement. But there are plenty of situations in which you'll really want to bring them along and you won't have other units to take hits.

I suppose the idea is that since they cost less to move, their effective cost to USE is less, and that makes up for the fact that they seem expensive.
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Dave Mendiola
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Well, if you really want to bring them along, and you don't have any other units, then they'd be protecting your GOO. I'd much rather pay a 3 cost to bring back a unit over a 10 cost.
 
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Greg Robertson
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Afrofrycook wrote:
Well, if you really want to bring them along, and you don't have any other units, then they'd be protecting your GOO. I'd much rather pay a 3 cost to bring back a unit over a 10 cost.


This is of course situational. You have to weigh the risk versus the reward. And if you run into a scenario like we played last night then it is worth the 10 power.
 
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Dave Mendiola
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RobertGhent wrote:
Afrofrycook wrote:
Well, if you really want to bring them along, and you don't have any other units, then they'd be protecting your GOO. I'd much rather pay a 3 cost to bring back a unit over a 10 cost.


This is of course situational. You have to weigh the risk versus the reward. And if you run into a scenario like we played last night then it is worth the 10 power.


To clarify, I'm saying it's better to lose a 3 cost unit rather than a 10 cost Great Old One.
 
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Greg Robertson
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Afrofrycook wrote:
RobertGhent wrote:
Afrofrycook wrote:
Well, if you really want to bring them along, and you don't have any other units, then they'd be protecting your GOO. I'd much rather pay a 3 cost to bring back a unit over a 10 cost.


This is of course situational. You have to weigh the risk versus the reward. And if you run into a scenario like we played last night then it is worth the 10 power.


To clarify, I'm saying it's better to lose a 3 cost unit rather than a 10 cost Great Old One.


This is not always the case. Playing too much defense in this game will cost you. A lesson I learned the hard way. But if you are too aggressive the other players will snag your gates behind you. So a balance must be reached to secure victory.

Yes, losing a great old one is a costly exercise... But it can be used to your advantage. Case in point is Great Cthulhu himself. He's summoned back for 4 power and you gain an Elder Sign. Now let's move over to Sleeper who can duplicate this ability with Serpent Men. Very handy to have when fighting enemies like Crawling Chaos and Windwalker. Crawling Chaos is another example of losing a Great Old One to gain yourself power or Elder Sign tokens.

Sometimes you have to take a knee in this game in order to push yourself to ultimate victory. Hope this helps!
 
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Dave Mendiola
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I think you're misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying that you shouldn't risk your GOO if the situation calls for it.

What I'm saying is that, all other things being equal, it will always be preferable to lose a Hunting Horror over your Great Old One. The 3 power cost is far more manageable over 10.

So while yes it can be a tad annoying to have your 3 point monster lost, if you can bring your 1 and 2 point monsters with you to soak some damage, your 3 point monsters fit the bill.
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Adam Starks
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There are exceptions to that, though. If you're only a couple points shy of victory and this is the last round of the game, then it can be worth sending Nyarly off to die at the hands (tentacles?) of Cthulhu while leaving your Hunting Horrors to protect gates (just in case Nyarly wiffs in combat or only draws a 1-pt elder sign).
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Greg Robertson
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AdamStarks wrote:
There are exceptions to that, though. If you're only a couple points shy of victory and this is the last round of the game, then it can be worth sending Nyarly off to die at the hands (tentacles?) of Cthulhu while leaving your Hunting Horrors to protect gates (just in case Nyarly wiffs in combat or only draws a 1-pt elder sign).


This actually happened in several of the games we played. Those extra elder sign tokens made the difference in final scoring. Man I want to play again... GAH! Time and space are depriving me of my Cthulhu Wars fix!
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