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Subject: Why not two named ships? rss

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Love Attack Wing but I wish each expansion came with two named ships along with the generic. We get multiple captains, why not multiple named ships. Even if there aren't enough canon names, I'd be fine with some made up names.
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so make up some names for your generics. That is the whole point of the generic ships. They can be anything you want them to be. The Heroclix version of the game didn't seem ot understand this aspect as every ship they released for that game was a named one and it really hurts your ability to run multiples (not that there was a rule against it in that game like there is in AW). They won't include 2 nameds and a generic in AW since it would cause them to have to print another base. One of each is a good compromise and it gives us the much needed no named generics to do with as we please.
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Ender02 wrote:
so make up some names for your generics. That is the whole point of the generic ships. They can be anything you want them to be. The Heroclix version of the game didn't seem ot understand this aspect as every ship they released for that game was a named one and it really hurts your ability to run multiples (not that there was a rule against it in that game like there is in AW). They won't include 2 nameds and a generic in AW since it would cause them to have to print another base. One of each is a good compromise and it gives us the much needed no named generics to do with as we please.


Nah, it's more like lazyness (or cheapness). If X-Wing can do it, there's really no excuse here.
 
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H00D4M4N wrote:
Ender02 wrote:
so make up some names for your generics. That is the whole point of the generic ships. They can be anything you want them to be. The Heroclix version of the game didn't seem ot understand this aspect as every ship they released for that game was a named one and it really hurts your ability to run multiples (not that there was a rule against it in that game like there is in AW). They won't include 2 nameds and a generic in AW since it would cause them to have to print another base. One of each is a good compromise and it gives us the much needed no named generics to do with as we please.


Nah, it's more like lazyness (or cheapness). If X-Wing can do it, there's really no excuse here.


Remember that in AW, unlike its predecessor, your Captain (with Skill Number and special ability) is separate from your ship. And you often receive two different named Captains in each expansion.
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H00D4M4N wrote:
Nah, it's more like lazyness (or cheapness). If X-Wing can do it, there's really no excuse here.


Are you sure?

*looks at the Slave I got for Christmas*

They all seem to say Firespray on the cards......same ship unless I use the 'Slave 1' named card.




If AW did have multiple named ships (and for spacing on the ship template it would probably 3 named and 1 generic) they would also have to include the the captains/crew/ETs/Weapons/Tech for each ship


Some things don't translate evenly from AW and X-Wing.
 
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Andrew Parks wrote:
H00D4M4N wrote:
Ender02 wrote:
so make up some names for your generics. That is the whole point of the generic ships. They can be anything you want them to be. The Heroclix version of the game didn't seem ot understand this aspect as every ship they released for that game was a named one and it really hurts your ability to run multiples (not that there was a rule against it in that game like there is in AW). They won't include 2 nameds and a generic in AW since it would cause them to have to print another base. One of each is a good compromise and it gives us the much needed no named generics to do with as we please.


Nah, it's more like lazyness (or cheapness). If X-Wing can do it, there's really no excuse here.


Remember that in AW, unlike its predecessor, your Captain (with Skill Number and special ability) is separate from your ship. And you often receive two different named Captains in each expansion.


That's true, but this universe has plenty of named ships, many of which we will likely never see, when they could have just been included in these expansions. Even if the price was a bit higher, there'd be a lot of value for sure.
 
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Also, why wouldn't you save more named ships for later expansions? I mean it makes marketing sense to have a USS Odyssey expansion with all the unique cards (for an extra $15.00) than including an "Odyssey card" with the Ent-D starter ship.

 
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traitorarmor wrote:
H00D4M4N wrote:
Nah, it's more like lazyness (or cheapness). If X-Wing can do it, there's really no excuse here.


Some things don't translate evenly from AW and X-Wing.


That's precisely my point. Attack Wing separated ships from pilots, but by including only one named ship in each expansion, there's a bunch of vessels we will likely never see. Not unless we get another expansion altogether.
 
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fastback64 wrote:
Also, why wouldn't you save more named ships for later expansions? I mean it makes marketing sense to have a USS Odyssey expansion with all the unique cards (for an extra $15.00) than including an "Odyssey card" with the Ent-D starter ship.



If the goal was to irritate the fans of this game, then yes it would.
 
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H00D4M4N wrote:
traitorarmor wrote:
H00D4M4N wrote:
Nah, it's more like lazyness (or cheapness). If X-Wing can do it, there's really no excuse here.


Some things don't translate evenly from AW and X-Wing.


That's precisely my point. Attack Wing separated ships from pilots, but by including only one named ship in each expansion, there's a bunch of vessels we will likely never see. Not unless we get another expansion altogether.


Right.....more expansion possibilities down the line.......also instead of just getting an extra named ship (or probably 2), in separate expansion, you'd get the captains and crew to match.

I would prefer ships that are introduced have a compliment of cards for them specifically...............that's not going to be everyone's prefernce but it would be mine.





H00D4M4N wrote:
fastback64 wrote:
Also, why wouldn't you save more named ships for later expansions? I mean it makes marketing sense to have a USS Odyssey expansion with all the unique cards (for an extra $15.00) than including an "Odyssey card" with the Ent-D starter ship.



If the goal was to irritate the fans of this game, then yes it would.


Not all of them, but yes, every decision they make will irritate some of the fans.
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Compared to other games, I think we're getting enough named ships. Right now we get 4 every other month, plus prizes. Going through my "other game" binder I count 31+26 unique piloted ships. I'm pretty sure that the 23 named ships + 23 base ships * 38 named captains here gives FAR more possibilities each tournament than the "other game's" 57 ship+pilot combos. That game took a couple years to get that big, this one has done so in about 6 months.

While there are always ships I'd like to see - the Rotarran - I'm pretty okay just naming one of my basic B'Rels that. Or put on a different paint scheme. There's nothing stopping you!

Is it more possibilities that you crave? Because you may want to step into something established like Magic where there are over 10,000 individually named cards. Or give this game another month or two, because with each ship the possibilities go up by quite a bit.
 
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I'd love to see expansion packs for specific classes of ships that do not contain a model. Most of us have already bought multiples of the more useful ships - but I'd pay money for a set of cards/tokens that contained (for example):

two-sided ship token with two different unique names
two named ship cards to match
two to four captain cards
variety of additional crew, weapon, tech, talent cards
miscellaneous tokens required for card effects

I can see a pack of cards/tokens INCREASING ship sales. Something like this for, as an example, the K'Tinga class, would likely be enough to make me get an additional two (or three) K'Tinga's to be able to play a fleet of named cruisers. So instead of buying two K'Tinga's, which is what I would do now, I'd buy three or four K'Tinga's and the card pack.
 
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traitorarmor wrote:
H00D4M4N wrote:
traitorarmor wrote:
H00D4M4N wrote:
Nah, it's more like lazyness (or cheapness). If X-Wing can do it, there's really no excuse here.


Some things don't translate evenly from AW and X-Wing.


That's precisely my point. Attack Wing separated ships from pilots, but by including only one named ship in each expansion, there's a bunch of vessels we will likely never see. Not unless we get another expansion altogether.


Right.....more expansion possibilities down the line.......also instead of just getting an extra named ship (or probably 2), in separate expansion, you'd get the captains and crew to match.

I would prefer ships that are introduced have a compliment of cards for them specifically...............that's not going to be everyone's prefernce but it would be mine.





H00D4M4N wrote:
fastback64 wrote:
Also, why wouldn't you save more named ships for later expansions? I mean it makes marketing sense to have a USS Odyssey expansion with all the unique cards (for an extra $15.00) than including an "Odyssey card" with the Ent-D starter ship.



If the goal was to irritate the fans of this game, then yes it would.


Not all of them, but yes, every decision they make will irritate some of the fans.


I would actually have no problem with that at all. But for the price, the models should look decent and that can't really be said about all of them. I think most consumers would have a hard time paying $15 for a another baby blue galaxy class or a ship already in their collection with the misaligned bridge, for example. I get that this is a different marketing decision, but one does affect the other in the long run.
 
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jonnyd76 wrote:
Compared to other games, I think we're getting enough named ships. Right now we get 4 every other month, plus prizes. Going through my "other game" binder I count 31+26 unique piloted ships. I'm pretty sure that the 23 named ships + 23 base ships * 38 named captains here gives FAR more possibilities each tournament than the "other game's" 57 ship+pilot combos. That game took a couple years to get that big, this one has done so in about 6 months.

While there are always ships I'd like to see - the Rotarran - I'm pretty okay just naming one of my basic B'Rels that. Or put on a different paint scheme. There's nothing stopping you!

Is it more possibilities that you crave? Because you may want to step into something established like Magic where there are over 10,000 individually named cards. Or give this game another month or two, because with each ship the possibilities go up by quite a bit.


Okay, but with that comes a price -- game balance. In that "other game," can you actually destroy one or more of your opponent's ships before the first round ends? No, you can't, but you can here, and from what I'm seeing it's the mixing of factions that is causing the most problems.

Attack Wing seems more balanced when staying faction pure (it's much harder to do that first round kill) so I could see this game shifting to have no mixing events. And with that comes less options.
 
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I would be fine with only one unique per class (not counting LE prizes, because I still need my Nebula class someday), if the generic ship had just kept the same stat line as the unique, but without the special ability. So, the Enterprise and Galaxy both have the same shields, and the Enterprise cost two more points for the special ability. Barring that, I do want more uniques.
 
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I know there are times when a generic ship is needed and possibly preferable, but for me, I'd rather run named ships. For 2 more points per ship, I get 1 extra shield, one more upgrade slot, and a special ability. That is a bargain in the game economy. When AW first came out, I treated it like X-Wing and bought multiples of everything because in X-Wing, you kind of need multiples of everything. At this point, in Attack Wing, I realize I won't run many, if any, generics, so there is no point in buying multiple copies. I'm am thrilled we have two unique D'Deridex class and two unique Breen Battle Cruisers, even if the second one of each came via OP events.

Bottom line, for me, I'd spend even more money on this game if there were multiple unique ships in each expansion. OR, if you released the same scuplt with different cards (kind of like with the Romunlan and Breen OP ships). Either way.

Andrew,
if you are still reading this thread, I do want to say I really love this game. I've spent way too much money on it, and from the looks of things through wave 9, I'm going to be spending a whole lot more. Keep up the good work!
 
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And, I do realize I'm asking for more ships in a game that has 9 waves spoiled/revealed with 42 ships, plus the OP ships.

I'm just like my kids... never satisfied with what I've got. shake
 
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H00D4M4N wrote:

Okay, but with that comes a price -- game balance. In that "other game," can you actually destroy one or more of your opponent's ships before the first round ends? No, you can't, but you can here, and from what I'm seeing it's the mixing of factions that is causing the most problems.

Attack Wing seems more balanced when staying faction pure (it's much harder to do that first round kill) so I could see this game shifting to have no mixing events. And with that comes less options.


You absolutely can destroy ships by using some of the same tactics you do here. Lots of accurate shots.

Before we had wave 1 I one shotted an Enterprise D with a Negh'Var commanded by Nu'Daq (VERY lucky rolling I might add), but the point is its possible. You don't have to mix factions anymore to consistently one-shot something. Even if you didn't mix factions you now have more possibilities in this game than XW.

My point is that this game is shifting far faster than I think it should. We are getting inundated with more ships, resources, admiral's orders, special ships, etc.

I really don't think there's any need for more named ships given how quickly some of this stuff gets released. We don't need even more random abilities than what we are getting. The FAQ is already massive, we have a wiki that shows rulings on each ship and card. I think one of the best decisions was that to use the same Admiral's orders and not release more in February.

The idea of a "booster pack" with just cards would be great if it was instead of some of the ships we're going to be getting. Starting soon we'll be getting 50% more ships given the current release schedule (3 ships a month instead of 4 ships every 2 months).
 
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The only faction in the game that is going to have a lot of multiple named ships is the Federation, at least holding names from canon.

That being said, I really wish we had special abilities and names for The Constellation (1017), the Intrepid, the Defiant (NCC-1764), the Lexington, the Hood.... other TOS connies to open up options other than the Enterprise which frankly I almost never use in the face of the Excelsior/Miranda.

Andrew, if you could answer, what was the reason behind using only one named unique ship in each pack? Was it resources on cards and cardboard and not having too much in an expansion, or a conscious design choice?
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H00D4M4N wrote:

Attack Wing seems more balanced when staying faction pure (it's much harder to do that first round kill) so I could see this game shifting to have no mixing events. And with that comes less options.


That's funny, my preferred play style is Federation alpha strikes, and that's before Admiral's orders or flagships...

If there's one thing I know for sure it's that every player and gaming group seems to be having a very different overall experience of this game. For some groups cloaked mines was insurmountable and ubiquitous, for other BoF. I would have said the game is less balanced with the current releases when played faction pure... and yet for each of these points of view there's a proponent of the opposite...
 
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jonnyd76 wrote:
H00D4M4N wrote:

Okay, but with that comes a price -- game balance. In that "other game," can you actually destroy one or more of your opponent's ships before the first round ends? No, you can't, but you can here, and from what I'm seeing it's the mixing of factions that is causing the most problems.

Attack Wing seems more balanced when staying faction pure (it's much harder to do that first round kill) so I could see this game shifting to have no mixing events. And with that comes less options.


You absolutely can destroy ships by using some of the same tactics you do here. Lots of accurate shots.

Before we had wave 1 I one shotted an Enterprise D with a Negh'Var commanded by Nu'Daq (VERY lucky rolling I might add), but the point is its possible. You don't have to mix factions anymore to consistently one-shot something. Even if you didn't mix factions you now have more possibilities in this game than XW.

My point is that this game is shifting far faster than I think it should. We are getting inundated with more ships, resources, admiral's orders, special ships, etc.

I really don't think there's any need for more named ships given how quickly some of this stuff gets released. We don't need even more random abilities than what we are getting. The FAQ is already massive, we have a wiki that shows rulings on each ship and card. I think one of the best decisions was that to use the same Admiral's orders and not release more in February.

The idea of a "booster pack" with just cards would be great if it was instead of some of the ships we're going to be getting. Starting soon we'll be getting 50% more ships given the current release schedule (3 ships a month instead of 4 ships every 2 months).


You can't one-shot anything in X-Wing in the first round. WK makes HeroClix so they should understand the concept of not being able to wipe out part of an opponent's force before they get to do anything better than anyone, yet this is possible in Attack Wing.
 
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H00D4M4N wrote:
jonnyd76 wrote:
H00D4M4N wrote:

Okay, but with that comes a price -- game balance. In that "other game," can you actually destroy one or more of your opponent's ships before the first round ends? No, you can't, but you can here, and from what I'm seeing it's the mixing of factions that is causing the most problems.

Attack Wing seems more balanced when staying faction pure (it's much harder to do that first round kill) so I could see this game shifting to have no mixing events. And with that comes less options.


You absolutely can destroy ships by using some of the same tactics you do here. Lots of accurate shots.

Before we had wave 1 I one shotted an Enterprise D with a Negh'Var commanded by Nu'Daq (VERY lucky rolling I might add), but the point is its possible. You don't have to mix factions anymore to consistently one-shot something. Even if you didn't mix factions you now have more possibilities in this game than XW.

My point is that this game is shifting far faster than I think it should. We are getting inundated with more ships, resources, admiral's orders, special ships, etc.

I really don't think there's any need for more named ships given how quickly some of this stuff gets released. We don't need even more random abilities than what we are getting. The FAQ is already massive, we have a wiki that shows rulings on each ship and card. I think one of the best decisions was that to use the same Admiral's orders and not release more in February.

The idea of a "booster pack" with just cards would be great if it was instead of some of the ships we're going to be getting. Starting soon we'll be getting 50% more ships given the current release schedule (3 ships a month instead of 4 ships every 2 months).


You can't one-shot anything in X-Wing in the first round. WK makes HeroClix so they should understand the concept of not being able to wipe out part of an opponent's force before they get to do anything better than anyone, yet this is possible in Attack Wing.


Wedge with expose, run one of the ships the shares a focus token and run they wing that shares target locks. You're rolling 4 dice with focus and TL against a ship rolling one less defense die. You can easily pop a tie fighter with your opening shot. Especially if you get down to range 2 for the first shot.

Same principals as attack wing.
 
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Is wedge going to get into range of anything in turn 1 apart from a foolish interceptor that boosts?

Rather, Tycho can forward 5, acion boost, push the limit target lock, then let off a homing missile against a TIE Fighter to possibly pop it in the first round.

But this thread isn't about X-Wing, and not about how quickly ships can be destroyed.

This is about why we can't have more than two named ships in a pack, and I'm still interested to hear Mister Parks' reason why this is the case!
 
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Norsehound wrote:
This is about why we can't have more than two named ships in a pack, and I'm still interested to hear Mister Parks' reason why this is the case!


I doubt that's a design question; I'm almost certain that's a Marketing decision. As such, I'm not even sure Mr. Parks has an answer for you.

That said, I suspect that it's simply Wizkids leaving their options open for future expansions. If the Enterprise (Constitution Class) package came with, say, USS Defiant and USS Intrepid cards and bases, they could have issues if they ever decided to release full expansions for those ships. In order to prevent those kinds of issues, they probably just decided (if it was even a conscious decision at all) to keep it to one named ship per expansion, even if they have no plans to release those ships as standalones right now.
 
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kemikos wrote:
Norsehound wrote:
This is about why we can't have more than two named ships in a pack, and I'm still interested to hear Mister Parks' reason why this is the case!


I doubt that's a design question; I'm almost certain that's a Marketing decision. As such, I'm not even sure Mr. Parks has an answer for you.

That said, I suspect that it's simply Wizkids leaving their options open for future expansions. If the Enterprise (Constitution Class) package came with, say, USS Defiant and USS Intrepid cards and bases, they could have issues if they ever decided to release full expansions for those ships. In order to prevent those kinds of issues, they probably just decided (if it was even a conscious decision at all) to keep it to one named ship per expansion, even if they have no plans to release those ships as standalones right now.


I'm fairly sure Wizkids' #1 goal is to make money by selling products to us. I personally think they would sell more units by including more than one unique ship in each pack. With an increasing number of cards being designated as unique, there is less incentive to buy multiple copies. But, add one or two more uniquely named ships, all of a sudden, you have lots of incentive to pick up multiple copies.

Take the Excelsior expansion. Add the USS Hood as a unique ship. If memory serves, the Hood transported Commander Riker to Farpoint Station for his transfer to the Enterprise-D. Drop the tech slot from the upgrade bar, add another crew slot and give the Hood the ability to transfer crew members from one ship to another (similar to the reinforcements side board). All of a sudden, you have a lot more incentive to pick up a second Excelsior expansion. You could do something with the Crazy Horse, Fearless, and other named Excelsior class ships.

For the Reliant, add the USS Saratoga from Star Trek 4. Give it the ability to deploy its makeshift solar sail and make an additional 1 forward move at the expense of adding an auxiliary power token.

For Kronos One, you could add the IKS Amar. Give it a scan token for free.

You get the point.

I just think they would be able to sell more copies of each ship with multiple unique ship cards in each pack. Win for them. Win for us.
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