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Mage Knight Board Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: timing of wounds, related to hand size rss

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Ryan L
United States
Michigan
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Apologies for a noob question (bought the game for Christmas; have played through a few rounds of solo play of the intro scenario; just the base set).

I could not spot in the rules the sequence of exactly what happens and when in instances when mage knights are wounded.

Considering attacking an orc early in the first night round, I found I had enough power in my hand to take him out but not to block. It was the orc that does double damage if you don't block it. Again: not the wisest move, but I was just taking the game for a spin.

So:
* I had 5 cards in my hand.
* Couldn't take him out in the siege/ranged phase
* That means he thumps me for 4x2 (I didn't want to damage my units)
* Then I kill him with two cards
* Heal myself (for 2) with a third card
* And get to save my last two cards to use as influence when I get to the monastery down the road on a later turn

The problem is timing and how much of a limit the hand limit is.

If hand size limitation forces me to discard immediately every time I draw a new card (ie, wounds), then my longshot won't work. I'd take 4 wounds and have had to discard 4 usable deed cards right away (making it impossible for me to hit back).

If hand size isn't a hard limit (and is just something you discard down to at the end of your turn or after combat or whatever), then my calculated risk works. I gain wounds into my hand, play my attack cards, heal myself, everything's manageable.


So, could anyone point me to the spot in the rules/faq that would cover this?
 
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Pawel Bulacz
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Hand limit is only when you are drawing new cards.
You don't have to discard to your hand limit.
You just don't draw if you have more cards then your hand limit.
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Alison Mandible
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Hand size is not any kind of limit. It determines how many cards you draw at end of turn.

If by some miracle you got to draw your entire deck on your first turn of the round, you could happily keep all those cards in your hand and slowly use them over the course of many turns. But any cards you acquired (through level-ups, purchasing, rewards, etc.) would stay undrawn until your massive hand finally shrank below your hand size, at which point you'd get to start drawing cards again.
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Vexi
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Bayushi98 wrote:
The problem is timing...

Your hero gets wounds in the Assign Damage phase of a combat.
Rulebook, page 7, Combat with Enemies wrote:
3. Combat starts by drawing and/or revealing all enemies you
have to fight. Then, the combat has four phases:
a. Ranged and Siege Attack phase – Ranged and/or Siege
Attacks can be used rst to attempt to eliminate some
enemies before they get to attack you.
b. Block phase – Enemies not eliminated by Ranged / Siege
make their attack. Players can use Block effects to attempt
to block these attacks.
c. Assign Damage phase – Any unblocked enemies deal
damage. Damage points must be assigned to your Hero
and/or your Units.

d. Attack phase – Attack enemies using any other attacks
remaining in your hand (including Ranged and Siege
Attacks you have not used during the rst phase) to attempt
to eliminate enemies.


Bayushi98 wrote:
and how much of a limit the hand limit is.

At the end of turn you draw cards up to your Hand limit. This limit can be modified (e.g. keeps, cities)

Hand limit is also considered when checking for Knock out. If during a combat you get wounds equal or more than your unmodified Hand limit, you have to discard all non-Wound cards. You cannot play these cards. They are discarded immediately. For example, if your hand limit is 5 and you get 5 wounds to your hand during a combat, you are knocked out. Note that wounds may come from multiple sources during this combat (other enemy tokens, card effects).

Another example: Lets say you already have 3 wound in your hand that you got from earlier turns and this turn you get into a combat with two enemies. You manage to get 1 wound from one enemy and 2 wounds from the other enemy. Even though your total number of wounds in your hand is now 6, you are not knocked out, because you only got total of 3 wounds during this particular combat. However, since your Hand limit is 5 and you now already have atleast 6 cards (6 wounds+cards you didn't use this turn) in your hand, you cannot draw any new cards at End of the turn.
Rulebook, page 8, Assign Damage Phase wrote:
5.
c. Knock out: If the number of Wound cards added to your
hand during a combat equals or exceeds your unmodified
Hand limit
(the right number on your Hero’s Level token),
you are knocked out – immediately discard all non-
Wound cards
from your hand.
Rulebook, page 9, End of The Turn wrote:
7. Drawing new cards:
b. Draw cards from your Deed deck, up to your Hand limit (the
number on the right side of your Hero’s Level tile).

• If you are on or next to a keep you own (marked with
your Shield token), your Hand limit is increased by the
number of keeps you own anywhere on the map.
• If you are on or next to a conquered city you have at
least one Shield token in, your Hand limit is increased
or by 1 (by 2 if you are the leader of that city).
• If both a keep and a city bonus are possible, use the
higher bonus only.
• Your Hand limit can also be increased by the Day Tactic
card “Planning” (see that card).


Bayushi98 wrote:
If hand size limitation forces me to discard immediately every time I draw a new card (ie, wounds), then my longshot won't work. I'd take 4 wounds and have had to discard 4 usable deed cards right away (making it impossible for me to hit back).

Hand limit doesn't force you to discard cards when drawing new cards. Drawing new cards happens at end of turn. Before drawing, you can discard non-wound cards if you want, but you are not forced to (unless you didn't play or discard any card this turn).
Rulebook, page 9, End of The Turn wrote:
7. Drawing new cards:
a. Before drawing, you may discard any number of non-
Wound cards from your hand, if you wish.

• If you did not play or discard any cards during your turn,
you must discard at least one card now.


Bayushi98 wrote:

If hand size isn't a hard limit (and is just something you discard down to at the end of your turn or after combat or whatever), then my calculated risk works. I gain wounds into my hand, play my attack cards, heal myself, everything's manageable.

No, you don't discard down to your hand limit after combat. Again, you can do it at end of turn if you wish, but only non-wound cards. Yes, you can play your attack cards during Attack phase, if you didn't get knocked out. However, if you did get knocked out, you should only have wounds in your hand, since all other cards were discarded during Assign Damage phase.
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Ryan L
United States
Michigan
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Thank you you all so much! Going to try a 2-player intro scenario this evening. Very excited!
 
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