Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
14 Posts

Warhammer: Diskwars» Forums » General

Subject: Thoughts on the initiative marker and it's strength rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Chris Miller
United States
Rock Hill
South Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm curious what others think of the initiative system and how it affects the game. To me it feels like it could potentially be too much hinging on that one d6 roll at the start of the game. I haven't played enough to determine just how accurate this is yet.

- The initiative marker is given to the winner of a d6 rolloff before the game begins. It it never transferred to another player.
- Ties in the command card strategies (which determines who activates first in a round) go to the player with the initiative marker.
- If the game ends with players tied in VPs, the player with the initiative marker wins the game.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Piero
Italy
Florence
flag msg tools
Life and death come and go like marionettes dancing on a table. Once their strings are cut, they easily crumble.
badge
What we see now is like a dim image in a mirror. Then we shall see face to face.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If it is too powerful a simple auction can be done for VPs.

One starts saying a number from 0+, and that is the number of VPs he/she's giving away for the Initiative. The other may add to that if he wants and so on. It works pretty well.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jacob Garr
United States
Dallas
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gorgoneion wrote:
If it is too powerful a simple auction can be done for VPs.

One starts saying a number from 0+, and that is the number of VPs he/she's giving away for the Initiative. The other may add to that if he wants and so on. It works pretty well.


This is brilliant....
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Piero
Italy
Florence
flag msg tools
Life and death come and go like marionettes dancing on a table. Once their strings are cut, they easily crumble.
badge
What we see now is like a dim image in a mirror. Then we shall see face to face.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jacobgarr wrote:
Gorgoneion wrote:
If it is too powerful a simple auction can be done for VPs.

One starts saying a number from 0+, and that is the number of VPs he/she's giving away for the Initiative. The other may add to that if he wants and so on. It works pretty well.


This is brilliant....


It is not mine by any stretch.

It is used in the Paths of Glory tournaments as a sort of handicap system, so that you may choose the side you want. The Allies are presumed to be more powerful, so auctioning 1 or 2 points to play them is a common practice. And practice makes perfect.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
CJ
United Kingdom
Colchester
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Gorgoneion wrote:
If it is too powerful a simple auction can be done for VPs.

One starts saying a number from 0+, and that is the number of VPs he/she's giving away for the Initiative. The other may add to that if he wants and so on. It works pretty well.


Flawed, though, as it allows players to game the initiative bid and force others to pay more based on turn order of bids. In other words, simply replicating the issues of obtaining initiative but this time in a mini-game at the start of the main one.

The better way would be for all players to blind bid and if there is no clear winner then for those players to re-bid until there is.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Piero
Italy
Florence
flag msg tools
Life and death come and go like marionettes dancing on a table. Once their strings are cut, they easily crumble.
badge
What we see now is like a dim image in a mirror. Then we shall see face to face.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
elgin_j wrote:
Gorgoneion wrote:
If it is too powerful a simple auction can be done for VPs.

One starts saying a number from 0+, and that is the number of VPs he/she's giving away for the Initiative. The other may add to that if he wants and so on. It works pretty well.


Flawed, though, as it allows players to game the initiative bid and force others to pay more based on turn order of bids. In other words, simply replicating the issues of obtaining initiative but this time in a mini-game at the start of the main one.


Not really. There is a risk there. You must be willing to spend at least one VP to get the Initiative and to force the other to concede if he isn't willing to spend two.

elgin_j wrote:

The better way would be for all players to blind bid and if there is no clear winner then for those players to re-bid until there is.


Blind bids can last some time as both players will bit "1"s. And it all depends on the range of VPs obtainable. In a game - read not Diskwars - where 10 VPs are the maximum obtainable, this system, I mean the auction as I proposed it, is not good because you're bidding always too much.

It there are more than 100+ points to be made, then bidding can work either way. In this case bidding first is a disadvantage, because I may be willing to bid two, but not three.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Miller
United States
Rock Hill
South Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
APensari wrote:
I would like to see some way it could transfer from round to round and not via a new die roll.

Is it better to go first or second? Seems like in the early rounds second is better. Should the Initiative go to the most aggressive player that round based on the rock/paper/scissor guide? How about victory points gained per round? In Combat Commander you can give up initiative for a benefit during the turn not sure what you could do here; remove an activation, re roll one die; or something like that and if you do you then you have to give it up to your opponent.

I plan to create custom scenarios any I do would assign initiative.

Random thoughts may not be very well thought out to overall impact.


There is somewhat of a mechanic to ensure you go last already, by playing a Slow tactic card.

The way it works in Combat Commander was in my mind too as I thought over this. It's a really nice system where holding that card can win a close game if time expires, but playing that card and handing it to your opponent during the game can swing the game in your favor, making possession at the end of the game irrelevant.

Some games give initiative on a round to the player that finished activating all of their models first on the previous turn. Also not sure how well that could be applied to this game, but thinking out loud for the benefit of generating ideas.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Sewell
United States
Palmdale
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I may have skimmed these comments too quickly, but are you all aware that you get a +1 bonus on initiative for each unspent command point when building your armies? (page 12: Standard Setup: 4. Determine initiative) So if you really want first choice (note you also pick which initiative position you want) you should build a slightly underpowered army.

Obviously that doesn't happen in the starter battle, but that's just there to learn basic concepts anyway. Who cares if you win or lose.

Your blind bid ideas would also work, but if you want to participate in organized play or tournaments I suspect you will need to stick to the rules as written
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B. L.
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Maybe they could have made the highest initiative card cause some type of hindrance. Say you move less or attacks are slightly weaker. This way it actually costs something to go first.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MGS
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Warhammer: Diskwars
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Having the Warhammer/initiative is cool and powerful. There are a few balancing factors though. As pointed out by CycloneVB, you can improve the initiative roll by leaving unspent points. The player without the Warhammer gets to choose the scenario card and has first dibs on deployment zones and terrain.

I must think that the process is pretty balanced because I don't usually mind if I have the Warhammer or not.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew McGrady
United States
Tennessee
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmb
I've only played 3 games so far, but in those the loss of Initiative was compensated by the level of pre-battle control given to the player(s) without Initiative.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Mongeau
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
Honestly, it's been my experiences that in most strategic games of this vein that going first isn't really better than going second. It can be an advantage, but it's by no means a very powerful one. I've seen a few games where it really decides victories, but not that many. I often want to go after my opponent, let him show his hand first.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua Brown
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
mb
As stated by others above, Initiative can be a good thing, but not always game breaking. Also, in the full game winning the roll off allows a player to CHOOSE who gets what initiative token, which could mean that you could give it up, depending on the armies available, options for winning etc.

also AngryMojo is a stinky poo head.arrrh
(whom is also my roommate)yuk
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.