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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Elven Boots rss

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Littlefinger Baelish
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Hello,

quick question regarding elven boots. If a character with said boots is immobilized, can he still benefits from the +1 Movement point earned at the begining of his turn ?

Thanks.
 
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The Shader
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I am reasonably sure that an immobilized person is not allowed to move. It doesn't set your movement to zero, it just means that you cannot use it.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Rules as written, I think a hero with the Elven Boots equipped could move 1 space while Immobilized. Immobilized explicitly and specifically restricts two things: move actions and suffering fatigue to move. In other clarifications of questions sent to FFG, movement gained from other sources has been allowed, as with Jain Fairwood's Heroic Feat, Knight's Advance, Berserker's Charge, and so on.

The Elven Boots are neither move action nor fatigue-moving, so an Immobilized character should get the one movement point from them.
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Grigoriy Kokin
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I seemed to see that in FAQ...

Yeap, here it is!..
Quote:
Q: When Immobilized, can a figure use skills and abilities that allow
movement not related to a move action?

A: Yes. Any skill or ability that does not refer to performing a move
action may be used while a figure is Immobilized. This includes skills
or abilities that remove a figure from the map and place it in another
space, skills or abilities that allow a figure to move an amount of spaces
based upon its Speed, and skills and abilities by which a figure can gain
movement points.
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Raphael Pigulla
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Agreed, and that's the way we've always done it. However, everyone I've ever played with agreed that it feels stupid, Immobilized should immobilize you, i.e. prohibit any voluntary movement.

But yeah, RaW are very clear in that regard. It's just my personal gripe with that rule :-)
 
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Amanda Kopet
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Would Brother Glyr's Heroic Ability apply then, even when he is immobilized? He receives 2 movement points each turn, in addition to the 2 he gets from a move action.
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Craig Bocketti
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synchroneyes wrote:
Would Brother Glyr's Heroic Ability apply then, even when he is immobilized? He receives 2 movement points each turn, in addition to the 2 he gets from a move action.


Yes he would, as would Okaluk and Rakash, who receive 4 movement points.
As long as it doesn't say move actions or suffer fatigue.

That is why an immobilized Knight is still able to oath of honor 3 spaces away, kill a monster, then advance and attack again, all while immobilized.
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Darren Nakamura
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mustardayonnaiz wrote:
synchroneyes wrote:
Would Brother Glyr's Heroic Ability apply then, even when he is immobilized? He receives 2 movement points each turn, in addition to the 2 he gets from a move action.


Yes he would, as would Okaluk and Rakash, who receive 4 movement points.
As long as it doesn't say move actions or suffer fatigue.

That is why an immobilized Knight is still able to oath of honor 3 spaces away, kill a monster, then advance and attack again, all while immobilized.


I just did this exact maneuver in my PBF game yesterday. Immobilized doesn't stop a Knight with the right skills.

Regarding whether Immobilized should be house ruled to prevent all voluntary movement, I'm on the fence. It's a really devastating Condition if it blocks all voluntary movement, and potentially negating a Heroic Feat seems incredibly powerful, so I can see why some movement is still allowed for gameplay reasons. I think a better solution would be to rename Immobilized, because people have a very specific idea of what that word means, and the strict gameplay meaning doesn't jive with that. So what I'd actually suggest in a house rule is to rename Immobilized. To what, I don't know. Disabled?
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Amanda Kopet
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if you like the word "Disabled" and were playing around with a rename, I would rename the "Stunned" condition "Disabled" it has more thematic sense to me since you can effectively use only one action since you are "Disabled". I would rename the "Immobilized" condition to "Stunned" maybe you took a big whomp to the head and are left reeling unable to move?

In my opinion, it's much easier to just leave them all with the names they have, but I agree a better choice could have been made, given how it worded.
 
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Trent Boardgamer
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There are a lot of little things that come up in this game, which struggle for thematic understanding. You check the rules or FAQ and they confirm the very thing everyone playing seems to think doesn't make sense (Except the one person raising the issue).

I agree, why call it immobilised if your character potentially isn't. But I guess no matter what you call some conditions etc, there is always going to be some little combo, ability, item etc which seems not to fit.

The biggest problem I find is how many of these little things we end up playing wrong, because we all go with the "thematic logic" only later to read a post on BGG where someone ask a question about something and we realise we have been playing it wrong. It sometimes even makes the difference between a win and a lose. Oh well, part of the fun I guess, trying to work out the rules in weird scenarios.

I never would have thought the elven boots worked when immobilised, so there you go. I guess the thematic argument would be, that the magic in them still moves the wearer forward, even though the wearer can't move....
 
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Craig Bocketti
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Maybe a disabled condition could be something like "reduce your speed by half, rounded down, until you perform a rest action."
 
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Raphael Pigulla
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mustardayonnaiz wrote:
Maybe a disabled condition could be something like "reduce your speed by half, rounded down, until you perform a rest action."

Comparable, but simpler:
"You may only perform one Move action per turn. Discard this card after your next Rest action."

Or, maybe more fitting thematically:
"You may not spend [fatigue] to gain movement points. Discard this card after your next Rest action."
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Craig Bocketti
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n3rd wrote:
mustardayonnaiz wrote:
Maybe a disabled condition could be something like "reduce your speed by half, rounded down, until you perform a rest action."

Comparable, but simpler:
"You may only perform one Move action per turn. Discard this card after your next Rest action."

Or, maybe more fitting thematically:
"You may not spend [fatigue] to gain movement points. Discard this card after your next Rest action."


I like those options too. But a reduction in speed would actually hinder something like advance.
 
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Gonçalo
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I thought it would be good to see the item card.

I don´t agree with your interpretation of the FAQ answer.

The boots add one movement point at the start of your turn.

As I read it I believe that it is one extra point that you can use when using your move action.

If a character as 4 points in his sheet then with the boots it is as if he had 5.

So for me the boots don´t make you move on their own they instead allow you to have faster movement when acting or in case of any other "use your movement points" ability.

That just my opinion.

I have to add that I only play with my wife and we almost never trip on such rare issues.
 
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Craig Bocketti
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cunha_neves wrote:


I thought it would be good to see the item card.

I don´t agree with your interpretation of the FAQ answer.

The boots add one movement point at the start of your turn.

As I read it I believe that it is one extra point that you can use when using your move action.

If a character as 4 points in his sheet then with the boots it is as if he had 5.

So for me the boots don´t make you move on their own they instead allow you to have faster movement when acting or in case of any other "use your movement points" ability.

That just my opinion.

I have to add that I only play with my wife and we almost never trip on such rare issues.


http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/11091079#11091079

If you read the second question he states that when you declare a move action that you gain movement points. When you suffer fatigue you gain movement points. The boots give you a movement point. Those are ways to gain movement points.

You don't have to declare a move action to USE movement points, that is just a way to generate more.

At least that is my interpretation.
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Gonçalo
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Quote:
Q. What's the deal with Movement Points, when can you use them?

A. Think of movement points like a pool you have available to a figure during its turn. When you take a move action, you're adding movement points equal to your Speed to that pool. You can also suffer fatigue to add movement points in the same way. There is no restriction on when you can use these movement points (before, during, or after your actions), but you have to keep track of and declare when you're using fatigue to move.

Also keep in mind that the rule requires you to suffer fatigue to gain movement points. If you're worried about something like a pit traps, you are absolutely free to suffer 2 fatigue to gain that extra movement point that would normally land you in a stun.

both answered by...
Justin Kemppainen
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games





I get it now.

The immobilized card only prevents adding Movement Points from move actions and fatigue... other sources are allowed!

It woud be better with a simple text saying "you can´t move"!

Thank you for showing me the light. laugh
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Craig Bocketti
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Actually if the character becomes immobilized on his turn, then he wouldn't be able to use the elven boots because becoming immobilized reduces your movement points to zero.

But starting his turn immobilized would allow for the use of the boots.
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