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Subject: alternative to assembling miniatures rss

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kristopher carbone
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First off I am a big fan of C&C and have all of the games. I just got this one, and after two hours of assembling I only got through 3 of the 14 bags of minis. One thing kept going through my mind is WHY...why make people like me who have sausage fingers try to put these awful things together? Especially since I now know that zvezda has a line of soft rubber minis that are identical. Why not include those rather? Anyway I would be willing to buy those minis from zvezda if I only knew which bundles or sets to get? does anyone know what to get and how many of each? Thanks in advanced!
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Ancestral Hamster
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There's a file in the file section which lets you convert Samurai Battles into the traditional C&C blocks if you prefer. Print it out and glue them to blocks.

As for the older Zvezda samurai minis, I don't know what you'd need exactly, or if they'd have the right troop types. Just remember each unit requires four of the same type of figure (yari, bow, naginata etc).
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Benjamin Symons
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Ancestral Hamster wrote:
There's a file in the file section which lets you convert Samurai Battles into the traditional C&C blocks if you prefer. Print it out and glue them to blocks.


This is something I've been pondering, but where would you get the blocks?
 
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Kevin Duke
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For the OP, the soft plastic minies are not identical, nor even close to identical. I don't know where this comes from --not the first time it has been posted. The soft plastic has much less detail and less dramatic poses, but are suitable for gaming.

They do have the same sorts of unit types used in the SB game, but not in the proportions or limited types needed.

You can make them work, but will need about three boxes of the infantry to cover the base game. Add a box of cavalry and the HQ-- accept that your four figs per unit will not be the same sculpts-- and you can make it work.

As to your original question--why would Zvezda do this?-- you just need to remember what business they are in. They already have the Art of War model--lots of hard plastic kits--for WW2--and are just doing it again. Many of their customers appreciate the detail of the models and are willing to buy lots. The C&C version is an add-on...a clever one in terms of sales, but not one they have seriously given support to.

Note for Benjamin--GMT sells blank blocks for their C&C games. Write to see what is available. The set for C&C Napoleonics would give you enough red and blue blocks for two SB armies, plus a lot of brown blocks for useful extras.
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Phill Webb
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Or you can do what I've done and only assemble 1 of each miniature for each unit and mark casualties as they are taken.

I may get around to finishing the rest some day but for now my group is quite happy with it.

This also gets around having to swap banners from miniature to miniature to play some of the scenarios.

Phill
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Kent Reuber
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SammySnijbonen wrote:
Ancestral Hamster wrote:
There's a file in the file section which lets you convert Samurai Battles into the traditional C&C blocks if you prefer. Print it out and glue them to blocks.


This is something I've been pondering, but where would you get the blocks?


You can order blocks from GMT at $20 USD per set. I bought a block set from the C&C Napoleonics base game, which contains red, blue, and brown blocks.
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Barry Kendall
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Rather than blocks, here's an easier and more attractive solution:

Buy a copy of "Ikusa." Or look for a secondhand copy of "Samurai Swords" or "Shogun."

There are enough figures in there for all the unit types in "Samurai Battles" except the cavalry.

For those, either use what comes with the game, or go to "Plastic Soldier Review" and look for "Samurai Cavalry." There are nice 22mm scale (same as "Samurai Swords") Cavalry that come twelve to a box.

Using my old "Shogun" figs is how I was able to play the game quickly. I do plan to assemble and paint the SB figures eventually, but haven't had time even to cut them off their sprues yet.

The Ikusa/Samurai Swords/Shogun figs come fully assembled, in nice poses, with nice detail, and nice oval bases. They stand well on these.

Besides, Ikusa/SS/Shogun is a very good game in its own right and a good one for anybody interested in the period.
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Ancestral Hamster
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SammySnijbonen wrote:
Ancestral Hamster wrote:
There's a file in the file section which lets you convert Samurai Battles into the traditional C&C blocks if you prefer. Print it out and glue them to blocks.


This is something I've been pondering, but where would you get the blocks?
Customizing the Samurai Battles Experience. The poster (earache) says he used extra C&C blocks, so as others mentioned, just order some from GMT.

A Samurai Battles report of the 1st Battle of Azuki-zaka, 1542 - BatRep. It looks like the blogger is using non-Zveda figures (15mm maybe?) and they are based for a different game system, but using them under SB rules.
 
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Kent Reuber
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You could use individually mounted 15mm figures and they should fit on the board hexes just fine. 15mm infantry can easily fit on a 15mm square/round base.

I have some 10mm samurai that I've spray painted but haven't based and detail painted yet.
 
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Loris Pagnotta
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Zvedza box set miniatures, are very good to increase your army strength or to avoid to mount them.
The semi rigid plastic fusion, resulted in well detailed soldiers, with good poses and only one drawback (for me) too many Samurai and few Ashigaru infantry.

Basing it isn't a problem and the final result look better than SB. You can put (for example) 1 colored cent on the base instead of the oversize and aesthetic banner (no banner swapping). Hits can be recorded in whatsoever manner you wish (maybe three colored cents) and so there are no limits on the number of miniatures that you put in every base for the best visual result (2/3 cavalry or 3 teppo and 4 to 5 infantry).
Bases with fixed miniatures have a better look and are more resistant to game handling.

Red box and other manufacturers have a widely range of samurai era miniatures and so Monks, paesants and gheishe are also available (although of not so good quality).
Go on, only our fantasy is the limit
 
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BrentS
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I had considered a block conversion myself but affordable blocks from GMT are not really an option here in Australia, given bulk, weight and shipping cost.

I very much appreciate the quality of the miniatures, fully understand their position in Zvezda's core business model and enjoy the game, but lack of portability and lack of scenario variety (even taking self-designed scenarios into account), has meant that Samurai Battles almost never gets played ahead of C&C:A and C&C:N......and as a result the many hours spent assembling and prepping the minis, even without painting, has not been repaid in play value for me.

Availability has also been an issue here....we've not seen Ninja Attack available locally and by this late stage will not expect to (although Mark has an ebay bought copy....I hesitate to ask the cost....so at least we will be able to play it). Sadly I can't envisage the game getting any wider momentum here.

Brent.
 
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Peter Millen
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I have sausage fingers and sexagenarian eyes. While I intend to supplement the included miniatures with the older Zvezda sets, I also am assembling the ones in the box.

Hey, I paid for them and lets face it the other components (board, tiles, cards) are not outstanding.

The process is slow and accompanied by oaths, especially when I choose the wrong arm for someones shoulder, try a touch too hard to force it in and - another pegless arm and jammed socket! But they are nice miniatures.

Here's a guy wearing a giant pumpkin on his back? Whats that all about?
 
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Barks
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NikTheRake wrote:
Here's a guy wearing a giant pumpkin on his back? Whats that all about?


It's a horo, to denote the wearer as a samurai of importance or as a messenger, and possibly to act as armour against arrows.

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Brad Bell
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The horo was used primarily by messengers as a way to deflect arrows coming at them while they were escaping pursuit. They were made from silk and quite effective. As gunpowder weapons became more prevalent the horo became more ornamental and rigid and was used more as a status symbol.

My best recommendation for assembly is to take advantage of the fact that the parts are all numbered. When I have to clip a bunch of them out, I do all the figures that use the same set of numbers (i.e. 5-9) for the base, arms, etc. That way I can be sure that any pieces in front of me will all fit together.

For instance, I recently pieces together 8 sprues of "Peasants with Ammo Supply" and did all of "Peasant 1" first, then moved on to the next one. It takes a little longer, but it drastically cuts down on the number of times I have pieces that do not match the person I am assembling. The first box I put together I clipped everyone at once and it ended up taking me three times longer trying to figure out which arms went with which person.
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Jon Snow
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ninja I mention my various experiences with assembling figures and armies in detail on my threads My Clan Army and NA: First Impressions on the Ninja Attack board, along with some general comments. I agree with most of what is being said here, although I've found the earlier Zvesda figures to be unavailable since SB came out, except for a set of Samurai Cavalry a pal happened to give me! I use Krazy Glue on all of the pieces, many of which do not "snap" together without some hole opening with an Exacto blade!

SB is a great game, but it will take you weeks to assemble the figures, especially if you're a beginner like me. I've now done two complete box original sets, one expansion, and four little boxes! (There's a reason I usually only paint miniatures in the 2 1/2 inch 54mm scale). I've done this so I can do double sized "Epic" battles, rules for which I've also posted. I wanted to have two complete armies, not just the minimum needed for the scenarios presented. And you certainly can't safely transfer the sashimono (personal flags) when you need a unit to change sides (I just mark them with colored plastic "stones"). I even kept my copy of Shogun when I got rid of some older board games just so I can throw the figures in if needed, as they are indeed the same scale!

I actually saw a military tech program on the History Channel (or was it the Military Channel) where they took a Horo and the host doubtfully set one up and had arrows shot into it. It surprised him that it worked just fine in deflecting them--not that he or anyone else was actually wearing it during the trial!
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Raven Zachary
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Fantastic advice on the use of Ikusa + 22mm Samurai Cavalry box. This is the route I went to start.

The box to get is "Zvezda Models ZV8025 Samurai Warriors".

Barry Kendall wrote:
Rather than blocks, here's an easier and more attractive solution:

Buy a copy of "Ikusa." Or look for a secondhand copy of "Samurai Swords" or "Shogun."

There are enough figures in there for all the unit types in "Samurai Battles" except the cavalry.

For those, either use what comes with the game, or go to "Plastic Soldier Review" and look for "Samurai Cavalry." There are nice 22mm scale (same as "Samurai Swords") Cavalry that come twelve to a box.

Using my old "Shogun" figs is how I was able to play the game quickly. I do plan to assemble and paint the SB figures eventually, but haven't had time even to cut them off their sprues yet.

The Ikusa/Samurai Swords/Shogun figs come fully assembled, in nice poses, with nice detail, and nice oval bases. They stand well on these.

Besides, Ikusa/SS/Shogun is a very good game in its own right and a good one for anybody interested in the period.
 
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Karsten Keese
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Feudal Japanese Warriors in 1/72
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Well,

Since you asked «Why do they ...?»: The reason for producing miniatures in parts are technical: dynamic poses or those where small, thin elements are close together would result in far more flash and mold lines when trying to achieve highly detailed structures when, for instance, a horse's legs or arms and a bow are in close proximity to each other or to other parts. In other words, multi-part figures are, ceteris paribus, better figures in higher quality and lighter as they can be hollow. Parts are also easier to stack and store inside the box, making for more efficient and cheaper shipping and storing in warehouses. Plastic Soldier Review explains all this in more detail, and since it is much easier to dumb something down than to update/upgrade it, people with a sense for aesthetics and collectors prefer the best possible quality over cheap and simple run-of-the-mill game pieces. Having to hunt for miniatures in a matching style and size is far more costly, time consuming and in cases of less popular epochs or themes, next to impossible, whereas those who see it differently can find pegs, pins, cardboard, meeples or cubes for pennies at every corner of the street, meeple We therefore applaud Zvezda for their decision to produce quality and only wish they had upheld that standard for the gameboard and cards, too.

Even with sausage fingers, there should be a learning effect after having assembled a couple of the Samurai Battles figures. Since they are also sold separately, those that really look terrible can easily be replaced once some scale model tutorials and practice have made the master. Most miniature figures, even with sub-optimal assembly/painting, will look better from half a yard/metre away than cardboard counters or tons of wooden cubes. They also make learning and playing the game more intuitive for casual gamers, in case you live in a place where grognards are hard to come by so that one has to convince non-nerds to play. That is always easier the more optically appealing a game looks. cool

If assembly is really(?)a problem even after having honed one's skills on a couple test figures, it might be worthwhile to consider metal miniatures. There is a tiny, unknown part-time manufacturer who produces pretty handsome figures in a perfectly matching SB size (with whom I am not associated in any way):

DT Models Kopp & Mahlendorf
- Thomas Lauble -
Hausacher Straße 1
77709 Wolfach
GERMANY
Tel. +49 (0)7834 869753, ...54
Fax +49 (0)7834 869755
"Thomas Lauble" <info (at) Kopp-Mahlendorf (dot) de>
http://www.Hagen-Miniatures.de/index.php/en/produkte/categor...
(very nice medieval/feudal Chinese, Korean and especially Japanese troops, with more already being planned and in the project phase)

Please note that the company address above is Mr. Lauble's day job and that bombarding them with phone calls and faxes would be inappropriate. The figures are therefore sold through Hagen Miniatures.

There are a few other manufacturers of 1/72 Ashigaru and Samurai, but these look good and fit the size and style of Zvezda's Samurai Battles armies best. Furthermore, they are a good choice for people who plan to pep up and upgrade their GMT games (Ran, Samurai, Sekigahara) or Avalon Hill's Ikusa and many other similar products such as Hail Caesar, Killer Katanas, IMPETVS, Ronin, Warhammer Ancient Battles / Warhammer Hostorical, and so on.

Personally, I hate painting miniatures, but consider it a necessary step on the way to obtaining an attractive collectors' item. It is not necessary that everybody shares this opinion, but again, replacing gorgeous miniatures with simpler ones or other tokens is always easier and cheaper than the other way round, so let's hope that FFG, Zvezda & Co. continue to produce attractive, appealing, valuable collectors items, making them affordable through economies of scale, instead of louse chits in versions for WALMART yuk and some overpriced special deluxe editions for people who love boardgames.

Thank you for your attention and have fun playing this great game, which will surely reward the initial effort.
.
 
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