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Subject: Hold boomer to ransom for her miracle power? rss

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Star Fox
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Boomer arguably has one of the best miracle powers in the game, but one of the worst character drawbacks as well.
At sleeper phase, she has to go to the brig and gains 2 loyalty cards, making her a lot less trustworthy because she's statistically more likely to be a cylon (especially if before sleeper phase nobody saw any indication of sabotage from anyone on the team)

I was considering holding her to ransom considering that her miracle ability still works from the brig.
Boomer, we're all not going to let you out of the brig until you use your miracle ability to pass an important crisis for us. If you try to get out before you do this, then all of us will vote against you, and Zarek will use his 'friends' to make it harder for you to escape as well. If you help us with your power, then Zarek will make it easier for you to escape, and we will trust you, and we will all vote in your favour.


Obviously a cylon boomer could use her power to make you lose a crisis, and then reveal on her turn. but she doesnt get the YAAC card power because she's in the brig. I don't think that they'd want to use the power to make you pass the crisis, just to get out of the brig and be able to use the YAAC card power. I don't think it would be worth it for a cylon in most situations.

Is this a common strategy? have any of you done this before?

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Cameron McKenzie
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I agree with this. I would even go as far as to say that Boomer passing any crisis with her miracle is enough justification to get her out, since a cylon would generally not be willing to throw away that miracle just to get out (Boomer isn't that much better outside the brig)

We had a cylon Boomer pass something kind of mediocre, we let her out and she revealed... It was just a few turns later that something big came and Boomer was wishing she were still in the Brig with a miracle.

I think cylon boomers who use their miracle to get out are making a very poor choice. Similarly, players who continue to distrust Boomer even after she's helped with her miracle are making a very poor choice.
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Quote:
I agree with this. I would even go as far as to say that Boomer passing any crisis with her miracle is enough justification to get her out

Not necessarily, I think it's dependent on the situation. If morale is extremely low, and she uses her miracle power to avoid a food loss when food is already high, then I would consider it a waste of her power and might still distrust her. It would be dangerous to let her out in case she did it on purpose to gain your trust, and then is actually sitting on a 'may reduce morale by 1' cylon card.
Quote:
I think cylon boomers who use their miracle to get out are making a very poor choice. Similarly, players who continue to distrust Boomer even after she's helped with her miracle are making a very poor choice.

In most cases, yep, I'd agree with that.

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Joe Trigiani
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I played sleeper cylon boomer in a 3 player game. First off, don't ever do that. Second, I actually used my OPG to pass and get out to hopefully sow some distrust among the other 2 but it didn't work. I took too long to reveal and the humans won. soblue You may be better off chilling in the brig to filter cards out for some good ones until a bad crisis come along.
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Cameron McKenzie
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Cylon Boomer is immensely powerful, even from the Brig...but you have to embrace your cylon side and put as much pressure as you can on the humans... Don't bother trying to earn their trust.

Brigged Boomer is comparable to even a revealed Boomer when you consider the benefits of Recon and Scout on your turns, better potential to spike since you draw more than a revealed cylon, and ability to drain human cards by activating the location.

Sometimes being revealed is better, to be sure, but it often isn't worth spending the turn doing it, or having to blow your OPG early on something mundane.

I usually stay in the brig the entire game after sleeper, when I'm cylon Boomer, and I usually win.

She's really bad in Pegasus though because she will executed in no time at all (but that's still probably better than wasting your time revealing)
 
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Exodus talk

Well, that's up to Boomer to decide if the reveal power would be more worth it than her OPG. Problem is, you never really know what's around the corner, and it can be bad to wait for something that never occurs. If the reveal power hits something that'll hurt, then that can be worth it.

If she's human, don't keep her in there too long though... In a 5p game, it's effectively 2 humans vs. 2 cylons. Boomer's Recon and OPG can only go so far, but that'd be balanced out by the humans having to deal with crisis system, so it's at best like 2.5 humans, vs. 3 cylons. When the shit hits the fan, she needs to be out of the Brig to be protecting civvies, killing cylon ships, escorting civvies, and playing more than 1 card into each skill check goes a longer way towards preventing fails and associated resource losses. She doesn't draw any green, so her turns are even more constrained in that regard. LS can only be useful enough to straighten up the Destination deck, as she already gets to "scout" the crisis deck.


While letting a cylon Boomer out has killed the humans, failing to get a human Boomer out in a timely manner has also killed the humans. It's a tough call, but does create for some interesting situations that you'd only find in BSG.

A very interesting Exodus + Peg game that stands out to this day is a 5p game. An early cylon made a powerplay and revealed pre-sleeper. We got hammered pretty early on. When sleeper phase came, another player suggested a bold action... to get me, Boomer out of the Brig. His reasoning was if I was a cylon, I'd "help out" and end the game sooner. Otherwise, if I were human, I wasn't helping from the Brig. They'd lose. If out, at least the Colonial Fleet had a fighting chance. I was surprised they pitched in and got me out. They were surprised when I kept escorting civvies, and taking down cylon ships. We barely won at the end, and it turned out the 2nd cylon was still in the deck as a side effect of the Exodus loyalty card system. 1st cylon did lose, but got mad props for almost single-handedly taking us down. We got hammered enough that me out of the Brig did make all the difference.
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Cameron McKenzie
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Unless Boomer is your only pilot, I'd rather have just about anyone else out in space. If you are struggling, the answer is usually to put someone on Command, not put more people in space.
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MasterDinadan wrote:
Unless Boomer is your only pilot, I'd rather have just about anyone else out in space. If you are struggling, the answer is usually to put someone on Command, not put more people in space.
Boomer's usefulness isn't just limited to space... if there's no space combat, she can still contribute more cards to skill checks, repair locations, hit up Press Room, use locations as needed (like Armory or FTL Control).

that's because your character draws red, doesn't "condemn" you to only be useful in a viper.
 
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MasterDinadan wrote:
Cylon Boomer is immensely powerful, even from the Brig...but you have to embrace your cylon side and put as much pressure as you can on the humans... Don't bother trying to earn their trust.

There was a really good thread a while back that compared brigged boomer to revealed boomer, and showed that boomer not revealing is better for her in almost every way. (more cards to sabotage with, can scout, can activate the brig to waste other players cards keeping her in, can use her OPT, can use EM and SP against the humans, crisis cards that she leaves by scout or OPT have an activate cylon ships step, but from caprica they wont.)

If I play as her I dont think i'd ever reveal.
 
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Allan Cybulskie
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I've always thought that Boomer -- and Helo to a lesser extent -- were the main reasons for introducing executions. Boomer, as a Cylon, really has no reason to reveal at least until she uses her OPG, and even then there are reasons for her to stay, which is pretty much unique. So if you find yourself with an active unrevealed Boomer and you have Pegasus, you really have to execute her as soon as possible.

However, this isn't the case if you are playing Exodus with trauma, because if Boomer stays in the brig she'll keep drawing trauma which a) might end up killing her with the disaster token and b) might end up with her being eliminated from the game at the end if she has too much of the wrong kind ... and if she is a Cylon then she doesn't really have a good way to make sure that she knows what kind she has (ie staying human because that trauma would keep her in the game runs the risk of her being executed in some way and then having her be eliminated). So while without the IN Boomer's drawback isn't a serious problem for her either as a human or as a Cylon (usually), with the IN it's nasty for both. Thus, I feel that if you are using the IN Boomer moves from one of the strongest characters to one of the weakest.
 
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Kenneth H
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My rampant distrust usually has me doing this, whether it's good strategy or not. I don't let Boomer out until circumstances clear her unquestionably OR she uses her miracle for good. Sometimes this hurts my team, but I can never trust her. It's just a thing that happens.
 
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Flamethrower49 wrote:
My rampant distrust usually has me doing this, whether it's good strategy or not. I don't let Boomer out until circumstances clear her unquestionably OR she uses her miracle for good. Sometimes this hurts my team, but I can never trust her. It's just a thing that happens.
If anything, I'd be more wary of Baltar. He gets his extra loyalty card at the beginning of the game where he's more likely to be a cylon from the start. If there's sabotage and it's reasonably Baltar, brigging him keeps him from running amok.
 
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@ackmondual

The difference is that you have to make a conscious decision to brig baltar, if you distrust him. This wastes your turns action when you could be doing something else, it also uses up a lot of your (and your teams) skill cards into the admiral-quarters-skill-check when you might need them for the crisis at the end of your turn. It's a tough call to make, you should definitely have a good reason to distrust him before you do this.

Boomers weakness means she gets brigged for free. No action required.
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Richard Pickman
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trigiani wrote:
I played sleeper cylon boomer in a 3 player game. First off, don't ever do that. Second, I actually used my OPG to pass and get out to hopefully sow some distrust among the other 2 but it didn't work. I took too long to reveal and the humans won. soblue You may be better off chilling in the brig to filter cards out for some good ones until a bad crisis come along.

In a 3-player game, it's very hard for the cylon to remain hidden.

If the cylon happens to be Boomer... well, everyone is already suspicious of Boomer, unless Baltar is also in the game. And if Baltar is in the game, he can use his OPG on Boomer and sniff her out early on, or right after Sleeper Phase. Best to avoid both Baltar and Boomer in a 3-player game.
 
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rpickman wrote:
Best to avoid both Baltar and Boomer in a 3-player game.

We houserules baltar so that his OPG only gets to look at 1 loyalty card, not all, in a 3 player game.
Otherwise it's too powerful - he definitely knows who the cylon is when he uses it.

Boomer stays as normal, but isnt a good choice to pick.
Either Boomer is the cylon, and will never get out the brig, or Boomer is human, and the cylon outside the brig will never let her out anyway. At least until they reveal.
 
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Starfox4 wrote:
@ackmondual

The difference is that you have to make a conscious decision to brig baltar, if you distrust him. This wastes your turns action when you could be doing something else, it also uses up a lot of your (and your teams) skill cards into the admiral-quarters-skill-check when you might need them for the crisis at the end of your turn. It's a tough call to make, you should definitely have a good reason to distrust him before you do this.

Boomers weakness means she gets brigged for free. No action required.
Still the same difference. If Boomer's human and you kept her in there too long and you're on team human, you'll likely lose too. From my observations, I have yet to see a game where a human Boomer stays in the Brig the whole time and the humans win if the cylons are experienced players. You need to spend the action and cards in this fashion, but for the opposite effect (getting someone out instead of in).

Starfox4 wrote:
rpickman wrote:
Best to avoid both Baltar and Boomer in a 3-player game.

We houserules baltar so that his OPG only gets to look at 1 loyalty card, not all, in a 3 player game.
Otherwise it's too powerful - he definitely knows who the cylon is when he uses it.

Boomer stays as normal, but isnt a good choice to pick.
Either Boomer is the cylon, and will never get out the brig, or Boomer is human, and the cylon outside the brig will never let her out anyway. At least until they reveal.
I've played several 3p games with Baltar in it. The trick is, if you're the odd man out, don't listen to Baltar unless he's got a "tell". It's risky being wrong and brigging the other human. I just let them play against each other while I progress the game for humans. There's only so much meaningful sabotage you can do without soft revealing.
 
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In my PBF (406) we're approaching a situation where Baltar will probably use his OPG to scan someone, and theres only 1 hidden cylon (We already know Adama is a traitor)
If Baltar says they are a cylon, then it might be true, or baltar himself is a cylon. It narrows it down to Baltar or the person Baltar accuses.
If Baltar says they are human then they are DEFINITELY innocent.
A human Baltar would never protect the cylon by lying for them, and a cylon Baltar might tell the truth to evade some suspicion.

But anyway, I agree that keeping a human boomer in the brig too long isn't beneficial. For some characters you don't lose too much if they can stay in the brig and use their actions to XO people, and play in skillchecks positively whenever they can, but Boomer cant XO.
This situation is also in PBF406, but I won't help her get out until I trust her.



 
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Kevin Walsh
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Starfox4 wrote:
Boomer arguably has one of the best miracle powers in the game, but one of the worst character drawbacks as well.
At sleeper phase, she has to go to the brig and gains 2 loyalty cards, making her a lot less trustworthy because she's statistically more likely to be a cylon (especially if before sleeper phase nobody saw any indication of sabotage from anyone on the team)

I was considering holding her to ransom considering that her miracle ability still works from the brig.

I think it's normally bad play. Human Boomer is pretty nerfed in the brig, and Cylon Boomer is almost at full power. Unless you have specific reason to mistrust Boomer, you should let her out.
 
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I'm not really sure it's best to think in that relative term...

So using that 6p game as an example, one cylon's known (well, things have progressed since then, but for the sake of example), you now have 12 loyalty cards among the 5 other players.


Baltar XXX 30%
Boomer XXX 30%
char1 XX 20%
char2 XX 20%
CL N/A 0%

The odds of her NOT being a cylon is 70%. I wouldn't help her out on that alone, but if there's indication that someone on the outside is a cylon, I'd be inclined to get Boomer out based on that.


If with a Mutr....

Baltar XXX 25%
Boomer XXX 25%
char1 XX 16.67%
char2 XX 16.67%
char3 XX 16.67%

The odds of her NOT being a cylon is 75%. Similar commentary here.
 
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ackmondual wrote:


Baltar XXX 30%
Boomer XXX 30%
char1 XX 20%
char2 XX 20%
CL N/A 0%

The odds of her NOT being a cylon is 70%. I wouldn't help her out on that alone, but if there's indication that someone on the outside is a cylon, I'd be inclined to get Boomer out based on that.

If there's a 70% chance that someone is a human, then some minor help in the event of her trying to get out is worth it. At the worst of times, if she is a Cylon, you at least get another Crisis card out of it.
 
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Amaranth wrote:
At the worst of times, if she is a Cylon, you at least get another Crisis card out of it.

Crisis cards are bad though. It's the main cause of trouble for the humans.
Brig turns are basically 5 free skill cards for no penalty. and then next players turn.
Sure, they cant help as much, but they can still help a bit.

And yes, i know crisis cards are the only way to progress the game for the humans, but having 10 skill cards between a crisis rather than 5 is still beneficial.


 
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Starfox4 wrote:

And yes, i know crisis cards are the only way to progress the game for the humans, but having 10 skill cards between a crisis rather than 5 is still beneficial.

Not really, because if you're in the Brig you can only play one card into any given Crisis. Which is a particular issue with Pilots because in general they either don't have cards to contribute or have lots of cards to contribute.
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Imagine that the brigged player isn't playing the game but is a passive effect that contributes 0-1 helpful cards into each check. It's easy to see that the brigged player is improve human efficiency. However, that is only the case if everyone is human. With cylons in the mix, brigging effectively takes a human out of the game (improving efficiency) but leaves all of the cylons in... Very bad!

That being said, if you don't know the loyalty of the person going to the brig, it makes sense to leave them there - the possible benefits of having hit a cylon can outweigh the harms of putting a human in there.
 
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