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Subject: Victory in Europe KS just announced rss

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Chris Rice
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I thought it would be a toss up between this and the Napoleonic War game.

But I'm glad it was this.

Looks great, although the circular map is a bit different!
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Black Bart
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The KS is planned to begin soon and release is targeted for V. E. Day (May 8th, 2014).

The map looks strange, there don't seem to be national boundaries (and I don't think the Dutch will be very happy). Also notable that cards will be the heart of the game and there are rules for leaders. Nothing like Pacific Victory.
 
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Chris Rice
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urbanus wrote:
The KS is planned to begin soon and release is targeted for V. E. Day (May 8th, 2014).

The map looks strange, there don't seem to be national boundaries (and I don't think the Dutch will be very happy). Also notable that cards will be the heart of the game and there are rules for leaders. Nothing like Pacific Victory.


"Once war begins, there is no such thing as a National Boundary - those are only lines on a map."
 
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Chris Rice
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The more I look at the map the more intrigued I become!
 
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Shayne Richards
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The title can lead your brain as CG have both victory and pacific victory. It would appear that the victory aspect of this it titular only and not necessarily a connection to the other victory games.
 
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David Bartholomew

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Would like to see more information on this. I'm a sucker for historical flavor text on cards, and really enjoy the historical information Columbia usually puts in their rulebooks. Hopefully this game will have both!
 
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Lance Hawvermale
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Link to the announcement?
 
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Chris Rice
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jackypaper wrote:
Link to the announcement?


It came as an e-mail so I don't have a link to it. If you PM me your email address I can forward you a copy.
 
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David Bartholomew

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Any update on the Kickstarter???
 
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Black Bart
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AHdave wrote:
Any update on the Kickstarter???

Silence from CG. Apparently the game was being playtested at Prezcon, maybe they need more time to get it right? V.E. Day would be a nice date to launch the kickstarter.
 
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David Bartholomew

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Right would be better than fast in my book. I'm getting fed up with the poor quality of rules lately in a number of recent games from various companies. Having to ask lots of rules questions on BGG and print out updated rules versions later gets annoying.

But, regardless, an update would be appreciated. I'm looking forward to this and Cromwell.
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Ron Draker
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Rest assured we are working hard to get this project on Kickstarter. Expect an announcement within the next couple of weeks. Thank you for your patience. I belive it will be worth the wait.
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Lance Hawvermale
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Thank you for the update. I look forward to the Kickstarter announcement!
 
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Shayne Richards
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Well it's up and I'm going to kick the hornets nest on this one. We have been eagerly awaiting this game, we like the new ideas and change from other gc games, BUT what is going on with the stretch goals?

Are they serious? When CG did their Napoleon (first kickstarter) the stretch goals were very nice indeed, they were incentive and rewarding...exactly what stretch goals are meant to be. I am not sure if CG feel that stretch goals are not important on this one but seriously, they are giving us what SHOULD BE STANDARD in the game IMO.

stretch goal one a second set of instructions...hmm how exciting, a lot if games come with two standard and I can print one at home for a few cents.

Stretch goal two and so forth...the blocks are the colour of the nation they represent...hmmm now I'm not privy to how this game plays etc but my axis and allies have different colours and I would have thought that a game of this type, if it was serious to try and stay with the theme (design of the maps and cards etc) SHOULD have as standard the colours. CG already supply all there colours in their other games.

I know some people are going to come and slam me now on this post, but it's my honest opinion and I feel that I am entitled to say, the stretch goals leave a bit of a taste in my mouth as they shouldn't be stretch goals...they should be standard inclusions. It was a fear of mine when kickstarter started getting overpopulated by everything under the sun, but let's get back to what it should be about.
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Jeff White
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Shayne, I understand where you're coming from, but I have a bit different take. Well, to be honest it's a bit different than what KS has trained us to expect.

I'm generally a 'less is more' guy which is why Columbia titles tend to be my favorites. I love the low component count.

So, with that in mind, I'm not sure they even need to do any stretch goals. I mean, _maybe_ a mounted map, but the rest...eh...I dunno.

However, I do agree that the blocks should come the appropriate colors for their nationality and that the second copy of the rules is a bit of an embarrassment, since we can just print that out ourselves.

I guess, CG feel like they have to provide _something_ to appease gamers, but personally, I'm ok if they just used KS as a pre-order system. And maybe that's what they're doing. I wonder if they project this to reach all those stretch goals anyway (the game is already half-way funded), so basically they just padded out what they expect to offer us so that they have something to list. Didn't Napoleon end up like this? Don't all copies now have the mounted maps, foil labels, terrain blocks, etc?

I say package the game correctly, remove the stretch goals, and take my money. (fun video by the way)
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Kurt Keckley
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Are there any previews online in terms of game play, card previews etc. aside from what is seen on the video and the image of the map? I want to back this but need a little more info first. I was unable to locate a BGG or CSW page. Am I just missing it?

 
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Sean Norman
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p38_Lightning wrote:
Are there any previews online in terms of game play, card previews etc. aside from what is seen on the video and the image of the map? I want to back this but need a little more info first. I was unable to locate a BGG or CSW page. Am I just missing it?


Nope, unless I'm totally missing something. No BGG/CSW page...I'm guessing the announcement just came out of the blue. I expect that a BGG page will be up before the KS campaign is over though.

And yeah, a 2nd copy of the rules is a little strange as a stretch goal...I hope it reaches the 50K funding level because I'd expect both "goals" to be provided by default.
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Shayne Richards
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Jack Hooligan wrote:
Shayne, I understand where you're coming from, but I have a bit different take. Well, to be honest it's a bit different than what KS has trained us to expect.

I'm generally a 'less is more' guy which is why Columbia titles tend to be my favorites. I love the low component count.

So, with that in mind, I'm not sure they even need to do any stretch goals. I mean, _maybe_ a mounted map, but the rest...eh...I dunno.

However, I do agree that the blocks should come the appropriate colors for their nationality and that the second copy of the rules is a bit of an embarrassment, since we can just print that out ourselves.

I guess, CG feel like they have to provide _something_ to appease gamers, but personally, I'm ok if they just used KS as a pre-order system. And maybe that's what they're doing. I wonder if they project this to reach all those stretch goals anyway (the game is already half-way funded), so basically they just padded out what they expect to offer us so that they have something to list. Didn't Napoleon end up like this? Don't all copies now have the mounted maps, foil labels, terrain blocks, etc?

I say package the game correctly, remove the stretch goals, and take my money. (fun video by the way)


Fair enough but I feel a pre order should have incentive ie like gmt cheaper price on p500, CG previously by mounted map bonus etc...

Napoleon was very different, as there were no stretch goals, and they got announced as the figures drew near and the stretch goals were very good additions that ended up staying in the end as no doubt the funding level covered the KS orders as well as just as many games to place in stock, removing the need for companies to have to spend any money up front on a product.

I feel that kickstarter should offer something, not just be a platform for standard release. Either offer good incentive stretch goals or don't bother, or offer a reduced price for KS only purchases.

It seems apparent by having the stretch goals all padded out already and offering things that should be standard or CG expects will be standard is their way of saying they are confident of gaining those higher levels on this release regardless of stretch goals.
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Shayne Richards
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More importantly, aside from attracting sales, preorder and kickstarter SHOULD be a system where the game producers show appreciation to their early backers and supporters by giving them something unique, or at least something extra. As I said, the extras here seem to me like they should be standard inclusions, and there is very little in way or price or components to say to the prospective backer - thankyou.

Next release. You get the blocks, stretch goal one is a map, stretch goal two, the instructions, stretch goal three a box? Is this where games are heading now? Stretch goals should be there for upgraded components or discounted prices etc.
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Jeff White
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Right, Shayne.

I think a lot of these should be packaged in the game regardless. If they had done that, what would they use as stretch goals? block games don't require bells and whistles, so I don't need any frivolous crap. Maybe a discount price as more sales come in. I could see that. I'd also be up for maybe including a discount on another game or something.

Again, I'm not sure what they could enhance component wise.
 
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Lance Hawvermale
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I'm of the opinion that stretch goals should be used to accelerate buyer enthusiasm and thus increase support for the project through word-of-mouth. And though I've chosen to back Victory in Europe, you're not going to hear me shouting, "Woo! We hit 30 grand, and that means we get a second copy of the rules! OMG!"
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Kurt Keckley
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A Eurofront sized map. That would be a stretch goal that would part me with my money. Block colors that should be in EVERY copy sold, not so much.
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Sean Norman
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Quote:
Again, I'm not sure what they could enhance component wise.


It's hard to tell until we know what the final product includes, but if we make a few logical assumptions:

Blocks
Columbia already uses fairly high-quality blocks, so I don't see much of an improvement that could be made here (apart from actually including all of the colours right off the bat).

Stickers
Columbia's stickers are usually pretty clear and the artwork, if any, is good. Not much room for improvement. In the Napoleon campaign, they tossed in foil stickers.

Map
Thicker mounted board? Highly unlikely to happen given that their mounted maps are all printed in the same "style". The one problem I've frequently had with blocks games, including those from Columbia, is overcrowding. A bigger map would definitely be awesome! Even if you had to take two folded map boards and lay then side-by-side (i.e. they were disconnected) I'd be fine with that. The more space, the better!

Manual
I'm assuming it'll be similar in quality to the one included in Napoleon, which is pretty decent. Two copies would be nice (saves me having to print one myself)...I just don't get why this is included at 2x the base funding cost.

Order of Battle pages
Thicker card stock? Though, I haven't been disappointed with what they've included in previous games so this is a bit of a stretch (and quite unexciting).

Dice
More dice. Different coloured dice for each side. I usually toss in my own dice when games don't come with a set of dice for each player. Not necessary of course, but a nice bonus.

Cards
I own Julius Caesar, and the cards are a pretty good quality. If they follow suit, not much room for improvement.

In the end, I think you're correct...there isn't that much room for improvement component-wise, though I'm positive they could have been more creative in the stretch goals, if they wanted to offer any. I would have backed it regardless.
 
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Black Bart
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p38_Lightning wrote:
Are there any previews online in terms of game play, card previews etc. aside from what is seen on the video and the image of the map? I want to back this but need a little more info first. I was unable to locate a BGG or CSW page. Am I just missing it?

The Kickstarter page has a link to a Rules Synopsis. Only 2 pages so still rather vague, hopefully they'll add the full rules soon? Being fast isn't enough to win me over yet.
 
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Black Bart
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Shaynerichards72 wrote:
Stretch goal two and so forth...the blocks are the colour of the nation they represent...hmmm now I'm not privy to how this game plays etc but my axis and allies have different colours and I would have thought that a game of this type, if it was serious to try and stay with the theme (design of the maps and cards etc) SHOULD have as standard the colours. CG already supply all there colours in their other games.

You would think this could have an impact on gameplay, e.g., weak Italians stacked with strong Germans, should that fall under fog of war or not? The components should match the desired gameplay.
 
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