Recommend
8 
 Thumb up
 Hide
33 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

BattleLore (Second Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Do I play games differently than most people? (the espansion questions) rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
David Bezio
United States
Lyndon Station
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is one of those opinionated "am I the only one?" threads, but, since BL2 became available less than a month ago, every 4th or 5th thread on this forum has been talking about wanting or needing expansions.

I admit, when I like a game, I do get all the expansions as they come out (and I will be excited to see the direction they go, and the miniatures)...but I certainly don't need (or even want) them less than a month after I get the core game. Hell, I have some expansions for games sitting in shrink because I'm still exploring the joys of the core set of a game.

I have original Battlecry, which I pull out when I want a Civil War Battle. I've had that game for years without an expansion, and it certainly always delivers a fun challenging game that is different every time I play.

Yes, I'll buy Battlelore expansions as they come out...but I can't see how the game "NEEDS" them so desperately any time soon (and in all honesty I'm not sure I WANT one for some time even as a hobbyist. I have the core set to finish painting, as well as the last Descent expansion and lieutenants, and some Last Night on Earth expansions, Mice & Mystics, Sewer Pirates...and the list goes on).

I don't want to sound like an old fart, but before expansions were a game "thing" we played most games for years and years without needing any expansions, and they remained just as fun.

I guess I just don't get this cry for expansions already, this implication that they are already needed? BL2 provides a hell of a lot of play right out of the box. Is this just some sort of game "gluttony" or do people already feel like they have exhausted all the core sets possibilities already? I guess maybe if this was the only game someone owned and they played it game after game day after day this might make sense, but I assume anyone who spends time on a forum dedicated to board games has at least a small collection of other games to play as well.

12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Cooper
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Mage Wars: Beastmaster's Pet
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I suppose a desire for more is a kind of gluttony, and it is a reaction from people who love the game. There is loads more play to be got from my base set, I agree. I have on my desk at the moment BL1, and I am looking at it with a view to adapting some of its contents to BL2.

However, one thing I have noticed while doing this is the amount of stuff in the BL1 box I never used. So yes, you are right - I am a glutton!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve R Bullock
United States
Palm Coast
Florida
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree with you.
Few games "need" expansions (although Doom was really helped with an expansion!).
If a game is good to begin with, an expansion is not necessary. I, too, have the excellent game Battlecry, and it plays just fine without a single expansion.
Simply no need for one.

I think what happens is that when some gamers buy a game and like it, especially from a company well known for putting out expansions, a kind of "expansion lust" kicks in, and they want more more more.

Expansions are nice, don't get me wrong, but unless you play the hell out of the base game (and some do) and need new units to refresh a game you have played to death, I personally see expansions as a pure luxury- even more of a luxury than buying boardgames!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Bezio
United States
Lyndon Station
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Stephanie Baynes wrote:
I have on my desk at the moment BL1, and I am looking at it with a view to adapting some of its contents to BL2.


I was thinking the other day that the goblins could easily be used as scale miniatures. The ostriches are too small, but the hyena are pretty good sized and the lizards would be just fine (since they are mythological lizards anyway).

Of course, I don't want to write up and playtest the rules, ha ha, but I'm sure someone (maybe you) will.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Z
Germany
Heidelberg
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think after 8 seassions Battle Lore 2 the game is def. not at the end (core set) and you dont "need" expansions...but, it would be sooo nice to have 1-2 more faction, some more lore cards and so on... just have a bit more of varity.

I know some will say:

Dude you got dif. scenarios other might say: buy 2 core sets and so on...but 1-2 new faction would change so much.

And I think think the musting choices are not that deep enought that you can play the core game over 2-3 month regualy (in my opinion).

So I can understand both sides. For Earthreborn its the otherway round.. I think if an expansion had come to early, it would destroy the base game or even worst the game feeling. After 1,5 years playing that I game I feel liek I need an expansion. But I dont have the same feeling with Battlelore 2 because of the "deepnes".


Hope you know what I mean

BEst Regards
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Stahler Jr.
United States
Wheelock
Vermont
flag msg tools
Check out Truesight and other award-winning fiction at davidstahlerjr.com!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

I love expansions as much as the next guy, but I think you're absolutely right.

What bugs me is the attitude I often see on BGG--that if a game isn't constantly expanding, it's somehow "dead."

"No more expansions? Well, that's it. The game's over! Nope, can't play it anymore. Cancel the show, everyone go home. What a shame, really. It was such a good game."

I don't know. Maybe the industry feeds into this mindset. Maybe it's just a reflection of the broader culture.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roland Bruno
United States
Rhode Island
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The game only has 7 scenarios and it plays fast so you can exhaust what the game in no time at all. Sure you can replay scenarios but in a game that plays so quickly that won't cut it in my opinion.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Cooper
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Mage Wars: Beastmaster's Pet
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The game has 7 half-scenarios per side - that's 49 different scenarios. We are sure to play our favourites more than once. However, only 5 troop types per side seems to ask for more. There is room for more, certainly, but the game we have is strong, and will last.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donny Behne
United States
Fate
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
www.punchboardmedia.com/geaux-gaming/
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm never content with just the base game, but then I'm a collector. I love having more options and more variation and more ways to play. I love seeing an IP expand and grow. I would always prefer to grow my collection upward (expansions) than outward (new games).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Reil
United States
Barre
Vermont
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wheelockian wrote:
What bugs me is the attitude I often see on BGG--that if a game isn't constantly expanding, it's somehow "dead."

"No more expansions? Well, that's it. The game's over! Nope, can't play it anymore. Cancel the show, everyone go home. What a shame, really. It was such a good game."


Yeah, I see this, too and don't quite get it myself. I think it started in earnest with the CCG boom - that was the first time I really recall seeing a distinction between a game being 'living' or 'dead' and that mattering at all.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Leber
Canada
Orillia
ON
flag msg tools
Yin
badge
Yang
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Depends on the style of game and type of expansion. If the expansions add more rules, complexity, etc then perhaps you can get more mileage from enjoying the base game to it's fullest before adding an expansion to "freshen" it up.

But if an expansion simply adds more variety, such as more maps, more variable startup scenarios, etc... then to me there's no such thing as too much/too soon.

Kind of reminds me of the old Rockband/Guitar Hero video game craze. I mean, would there be such a thing as having too many songs? I don't think so. There was no down side to having more variety.

More factions in a game like this can only be a good thing. What's the difference between having 10 factions available today, or having 10 factions available in a couple of years? No difference, particularly if you didn't get in on the base game on day 1. So I see no reason to artificially delay them (not that anyone is doing that, or asking for it to be done).

Being excited for, and wanting to try out all kinds of new characters/strategies can have nothing to do with being "bored" in any way shape or form. If the game came with 4 full factions, people would be championing it as an amazing feature. So why not have 2 more factions as soon as possible?


Wheelockian wrote:


What bugs me is the attitude I often see on BGG--that if a game isn't constantly expanding, it's somehow "dead."

"No more expansions? Well, that's it. The game's over! Nope, can't play it anymore. Cancel the show, everyone go home. What a shame, really. It was such a good game."


This, however, I agree with 100%. Certain games like Battlelore do have a bit more of an expectation of expansion perhaps. But I also see this type of attitude with all types of board games all the time, and shake my head. For a game I love, I may say "I'd love to see an expansion for this game", but I never expect it, and don't think it needs to be a bad thing if one never comes out. A game can (and should) be a complete package all on its' own.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank Müller
Austria
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
I agree. I sometimes wonder when I read these fanatical "we-want-more" yells, HOW often do people really play this game? I play alot, usually once a week. I have collected dozens of games.

Even I with my once per week playing frequency would never have the slightest chance to play all the 49? scenario variants of BL2 except maybe its the only game I play for the next years.

So a question to all these guys who want an addon immediately, how much time do you have and how often do you play BL2 in order to play through the massive content of dozens scenarios in shorter time than lets say 2 years?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Geoff Speare
United States
Bedford
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
tee hee, that tickles!!!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In addition to pure gluttony and desire for variety, in this case I want to see that FFG is going to support this version of BattleLore.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Garrett
United States
Laredo
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's a lore thing for me. Runewars had four factions. Rune Age had four base factions. These four factions make up the core of the Terrinoth army lore, so as long as I don't have the Latari Elves and Waiqar the Undying, this game will feel incomplete. If the Dunwarr Dwarves and Orcs of the Broken Plains are later released, I'm not sure whether or not I'll buy them, and if small expansions come out to introduce new unit types, I probably won't purchase them. I just want elves and undead to be represented with the same stuff as the core set Daqan Lords and Uthuk Y'llan.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul DeStefano
United States
Long Island
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
It's a Zendrum. www.zendrum.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wolvercote wrote:
The game only has 7 scenarios


No...

It has 49.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Guillaume Pages
United Kingdom
Oxford
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
To the OP: I think this gluttony of expansion may have to do with Games Workshop and their evolving games and expansions.

After all, whilst Fantasy Flight Games is very good at expanding a game, Games Workshop has mastered the expansion system when it comes to their 2 main games: Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40,000. Not surprisingly, games that they expanded but were not successful like Blood Bowl or Necromunda were relocated to their "classic games" section and are not supported anymore.

I think the majority of fantasy miniature players have at some point dabbed in warhammer fantasy and if so, you would probably have noticed that GW releases new components for their games every 2-3 months. Whilst these new releases may have nothing to do with your army, at least a player feels like GW is supporting their game system.

I guess Battlelore 2nd edition players may be scared that if BL2 does not do well, FGG may not support the game with expansions, and what could have been this great big game that could rival GW big fantasy game, was never more than a starter set.

For a new warhammer fantasy or warhammer 40,000 player, there is no such worry that GW will drop the game (unless you listen to the rumors circulating about Warhammer fantasy battle) and pretty quickly they will expect new releases every quarters.

As a GW consumer, I used to expect new expansions for all these boardgames, but now I know better, I don't expect anything (unless it has to do with Cthulhu and is published by FFG) and if there is anything added to the game later, then it is a bonus.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Guillaume Pages
United Kingdom
Oxford
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As for the 49 scenarios question...

Technically, there are 49 ways to set-up the game.

But as a player, I may not want to play the A1 scenario against all the others, partly because the A1 scenario for me remains the same.

My opponent may behave differently, but my scenario objectives, special VPs and probably my battle strategy to some extent, will be very similar to previous iterations of me playing the A1 scenario.

Still, as far as I am concerned, there are at least 14 games for me in this box. I will play each scenario with each army at least once.

By playing once every two weeks (I have other games to play), that will take me 28 weeks or 7 months to finish. I would imagine that within 7 months, FFG may release a new army for the game, at which point I can get the new army and the new scenarios associated with them and get playing some more.

Finally, at a retail price of $79.95, that's $5.75 per game, to be completely mathematically cold and logical about it. I am happy with that kind of cost per play. Not the cheapest, but not the most expensive either.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Cooper
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Mage Wars: Beastmaster's Pet
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
it is a war game with two sides fighting - not a 'beat the scenario' game. The object isn't to play the scenario then it's done. The opposing side's choice of scenario does affect how the game plays. Once you have won with a scenario that is not the end of it. There are different people playing your opponent, there are different scenarios that will affect what you do, different 50-point armies you can choose. That is a lot more than 14 games just to get each bit done at least once.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Guillaume Pages
United Kingdom
Oxford
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Stephanie Baynes wrote:
That is a lot more than 14 games just to get each bit done at least once.


Very true. I was thinking too much in terms of "beating the scenario". As a wargame with a dice mechanic, every game will be widely different, especially as lore cards will have big impact on the gameplay. Those cards are brutal.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Gaskill
United States
Bridgeton
New Jersey
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Budgernaut wrote:
It's a lore thing for me. Runewars had four factions. Rune Age had four base factions. These four factions make up the core of the Terrinoth army lore, so as long as I don't have the Latari Elves and Waiqar the Undying, this game will feel incomplete. If the Dunwarr Dwarves and Orcs of the Broken Plains are later released, I'm not sure whether or not I'll buy them, and if small expansions come out to introduce new unit types, I probably won't purchase them. I just want elves and undead to be represented with the same stuff as the core set Daqan Lords and Uthuk Y'llan.


As a certified Old Fart I agree about wanting expansions for this reason. FFG has firmly placed this in it's Terrinoth Game World,
so it very reasonable to expect expansions to include them.

OD
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve R Bullock
United States
Palm Coast
Florida
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wheelockian wrote:

I love expansions as much as the next guy, but I think you're absolutely right.

What bugs me is the attitude I often see on BGG--that if a game isn't constantly expanding, it's somehow "dead."

"No more expansions? Well, that's it. The game's over! Nope, can't play it anymore. Cancel the show, everyone go home. What a shame, really. It was such a good game."

I don't know. Maybe the industry feeds into this mindset. Maybe it's just a reflection of the broader culture.


Right on, David!
As an example, Heroscape has been OOP for years, and I still find it as playable and fun as ever! Indeed, I create custom terrain and figures for it all the time, and do my little part to keep the game alive by selling those customs on the internet.
Just because a game no longer has expansions DOES NOT mean the game is dead!

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Bezio
United States
Lyndon Station
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
APensari wrote:
i'm just tired of these posts wanting game companies to slow down or not release expansions for whatever reason.


Not what this thread is about. Everyone here is excited about the future of BL2 and the forthcoming expansions. This is simply a discussion about how people play, how fast they play, how quickly they burn out on the core set, whether people can slow down and smell the roses for better long-term game play, ect. It's just a discussion, not name calling, finger pointing, or imposing anyone's will on game companies or gamers.

I was surprised at the sheer number of threads asking for expansions 2 and 3 weeks after the game was released, I was opening up a conversation to see if I was the only one who felt they still had a lot of game play to go with they core set, and to find out why people who want the expansions yesterday feel so urgently.

\Sorry I rubbed you the wrong way, but it wasn't my intention.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donny Behne
United States
Fate
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
www.punchboardmedia.com/geaux-gaming/
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
APensari wrote:

Bottom line people vote with their dollars and as uncomfortable as that makes people feel I'll buy what I want when I want.


You need to take it down a notch, pal. No one told you that you can't buy what you want. The world isn't ending. No one is petitioning FFG to stop printing expansions. Relax, breathe. Have a kiss. kiss
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Bezio
United States
Lyndon Station
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
APensari wrote:
snip


This might sound odd to you at this point, but I agree with you (well, except about me having an agenda??). I'm not a proponent of stopping, slowing down, or regulating expansions (or anything that isn't harmful). I don't have any problem with what companies or other people do with their time or money. I love (good) expansions, and this game is designed to be supported by them. I must be wording things poorly, but this thread was a discussion/(personal)reaction to the sheer number of threads asking for expansions as if the game has been out for 6 months already.

It's a game forum...to talk about games and game related stuff. There doesn't have to be an agenda (and even if I did have one, I'm sure FFG wouldn't pay any attention, ha ha), sometimes it's just about sitting around a virtual table with people beyond your own game table and talking about things you find interesting, hearing other peoples insight (including yours), and gaining some perspective.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Applejack
United States
Vermont
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm curious what folks would want from an expansion. New factions? More/different units for the existing factions? More scenario/lore cards? A six-player variant à la Memoir '44: Overlord? Fantasy Flight Games will probably do all of the above eventually, but if you had a choice, which would you want released first?

I'm torn between new factions and new units for the two core set factions. That said, with only two plays, I have a lot more to explore from the base set of BattleLore Second Edition.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.