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Subject: Race thoughts rss

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Marc Bennett
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I love the variety of races that making it into the game. and the artwork is not too serious but still very well done, i really like that about this game.

since it looks like there will be quite a few more races in the 28 days to come. what are your thoughts? suggestions? what do you think the Valkyries will specialize in? what races do you still want to see?

i think a monster insect race would be cool. specalize in getting food and more people. also maybe say they cant be in an alliance they have to fight.
 
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I really dislike having something game-changing like races as a stretch goal. Component upgrades and such are great, but if we're talking about content that could be an expansion, I'd rather just pay the 1 or 2$ more that it would cost to print the few extra cards, given those races actually are already developed and have rules.

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Marc Bennett
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im not sure i follow....

stretch goals like extra races make perfect sense for a game like this. each race is 2 cards i believe. (the town card and the magic track card) which has 3 pieces of art total. (I think? Correct me if im wrong)

i am going to make up numbers here but the point stands. so if we round a bit to make the numbers pretty lets average the game at 20 dollars. lets say they make 7 dollars per game sold. (again not sure what it actually is)

if they sell 100 copies they make 700 dollars, however as sales go up the formula isnt quite so static. at 1000 copies sold they wouldnt make 7,000 but more like 10,000 or more as the cost to print goes down with bulk.

so how does that relate to stretch goals and new races?

well the biggest cost in a new race will be the art. lets say a new race costs 1,000 in new art. the cost to print the 2 cards needed is literally pennies so they get added to the game as a bonus, which fuels excitement (free advertising) so the stretch goals are the points the company feels they can pay for the new art with some of their earnings and give you the bonus. its a win win. we get a better game, the company gets a better value game and free advertising.

what i believe your suggesting is to have the extra races for sale separately for a couple bucks. this has the downside of not being related to the success of the project, and doesnt really feel like a bonus. if they offered the extra races as an addon, if no one purchased that add on, then they would lose money as they paid for art no one purchased. not to mention the cost of more packaging for the expansion.

dont get me wrong, i love component upgrades. but in a game like this where new races are easy and cheap to add, they make perfect stretch goals while we wait for the component upgrades. (love the D12s by the way!) also taking out the race stretch goals would not make the component stretch goals come any faster. it would be a lot longer wait until they showed up.

anyway im probably rambling. back to the original post. anyone have any interesting and unique race ideas?
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Chris Vossen
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Oozes. The gelatinous kind. They need some old school D&D love.

We're at 11 factions so far if you can believe that (2 days ago we were only thinking 4, and didn't know just what would happen when the campaign started). Kobolds & Treefolk are good ones. Another magically inclined faction like Druids would be good too.
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Klaxas wrote:

well the biggest cost in a new race will be the art. lets say a new race costs 1,000 in new art. the cost to print the 2 cards needed is literally pennies so they get added to the game as a bonus, which fuels excitement (free advertising) so the stretch goals are the points the company feels they can pay for the new art with some of their earnings and give you the bonus. its a win win. we get a better game, the company gets a better value game and free advertising.


Ah, yes, I suppose that's a very good point. What I mean is this: Which races did they actually design for the game beforehand? Which were playtested? With component upgrades, the game is still as playable with or without these upgraded components, but if a stretch goal race becomes a possibility and that stretch goal isn't reached, it inevitably feels like a part that is supposed to be in the game is "missing", if you get my meaning.

The D12 are an excellent SG, but it makes me wonder: Why include the useless "collectible" D6 in the Deluxe edition that serves no gameplay purpose rather than D12 that actually enhance gameplay?

Looking at the success of the campaign, however, these points won't matter much anyway

For the next races few SG races, I'll just take a guess and say they'll be more female-oriented e.g. Valkyries, Amazons, maybe Nagas and such...
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Marc Bennett
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Sharkfist Robot wrote:
Oozes. The gelatinous kind. They need some old school D&D love.

We're at 11 factions so far if you can believe that (2 days ago we were only thinking 4, and didn't know just what would happen when the campaign started). Kobolds & Treefolk are good ones. Another magically inclined faction like Druids would be good too.


ohhhh love the oozes idea. and dark elves gotta have someone for the regular elves to hate lol!
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Marc Bennett
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Tzer wrote:

Ah, yes, I suppose that's a very good point. What I mean is this: Which races did they actually design for the game beforehand? Which were playtested? With component upgrades, the game is still as playable with or without these upgraded components, but if a stretch goal race becomes a possibility and that stretch goal isn't reached, it inevitably feels like a part that is supposed to be in the game is "missing", if you get my meaning.

ahhh i see ok. i would guess the first 6 races have had the most playtesting. the races that already have art made probably have had some playtesting, with the races having no art probably have little or no playtesting as their strategic theme isnt even decided yet. however the only real variable is the magic chart, unless they decide to make the value for war stats different for different races. it shouldnt take too long to balance out new races after funding.

as for the missing component if we missed a stretch goal.... i TOTALLY agree and it is saddly one of the evils of kickstarter. although i have seen one game (Argent) where the last day or so they were just like "no more goals, no time to figure out pricing but the more money we get the better the game will be" as a final stretch notice

Tzer wrote:

The D12 are an excellent SG, but it makes me wonder: Why include the useless "collectible" D6 in the Deluxe edition that serves no gameplay purpose rather than D12 that actually enhance gameplay?

totally in agreement here. even before the hype with the races i looked at the deluxe edition and was like. dice? wait.... what? then looked through the rules again just to make sure i wasnt crazy. yes no dice are needed for the game. i would rather not have the 6 siders, i really just pledged deluxe for the extra 2 races. (and would have even if they were not exclusive)
Tzer wrote:

Looking at the success of the campaign, however, these points won't matter much anyway

again in agreement. as long as we hit the D12 i'll be happy lol. of course nothing stops us from just playing that varient with a regular D12 since they basicly gave away the rules for it. but a custom D12 is still cool.
Tzer wrote:

For the next races few SG races, I'll just take a guess and say they'll be more female-oriented e.g. Valkyries, Amazons, maybe Nagas and such...


you are mostly likely right here. amazons probably, i never considered nagas to be female.... maybe a mermaids faction? i think they are all great ideas to be explored.
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Marc Bennett
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just had another one along the lines of female oriented races.

Fairies! or Sirens! (maybe too much like mermaids) how about gorgons, those are typically female.

what about a changeling? they can be anything.
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Aaron White
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Bennett from Brawl
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Gnolls. They need a good savage counterpoint to the Orcs.

Or maybe I am just a diehard PC Master of Magic fan.
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Marc Bennett
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Rook96 wrote:
Gnolls. They need a good savage counterpoint to the Orcs.

Or maybe I am just a diehard PC Master of Magic fan.


loved master of magic!
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The next SG races they revealed were indeed Amazons, guess I was right with my prior guess
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JT Schiavo
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Tzer wrote:
Ah, yes, I suppose that's a very good point. What I mean is this: Which races did they actually design for the game beforehand? Which were playtested?


They said tonight in the comments that the first ten races (the base four, the two deluxe, and the first four stretch) have all been playtested thoroughly. The next four have not been playtested but are within the bounds of the mechanics of the other races and therefore will be rather easy to balance.

My guess is that after 14, they'll probably stop with new races for the sake of balance and playtesting. More component upgrades, maybe more territory cards, etc.


As for the D6... They're just there for looks. "Look at my cool swag."
 
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Marc Bennett
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crinaya wrote:
Tzer wrote:
Ah, yes, I suppose that's a very good point. What I mean is this: Which races did they actually design for the game beforehand? Which were playtested?


They said tonight in the comments that the first ten races (the base four, the two deluxe, and the first four stretch) have all been playtested thoroughly. The next four have not been playtested but are within the bounds of the mechanics of the other races and therefore will be rather easy to balance.

My guess is that after 14, they'll probably stop with new races for the sake of balance and playtesting. More component upgrades, maybe more territory cards, etc.


As for the D6... They're just there for looks. "Look at my cool swag."


im glad to hear they have been playtested. although i am not sure they will stop at these 14 races. the races are cheap and easy to produce. there is only 1 variable to balance (the magic chart) so i think we may yet see more. they make great small stretch goals while we build up to the larger ones. you notice its race race component, race race race component, etc. thats because the races give us something without costing them much, so that money builds up to pay for the component upgrade.

as a side note, the female races not only have the amazons, they have the Valkyries
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JT Schiavo
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Today Gamelyn games said that they are happy with the current races. Maybe one more, maybe. Not sure where the stretch goals will go from here. We still need an upgraded action marker and some more territory cards.
 
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Marc Bennett
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i would like more double sided terratory cards.

maybe a campaign system?
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