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1862: Railway Mania in the Eastern Counties» Forums » Rules

Subject: Timing of warranty removal rss

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Eric Brosius
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My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
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The rules clearly state that a warranty is removed from each company that has any at the end of the train running step. This raises a question:

Suppose you are Director of two companies, and you have a train with one or more warranties. You flip the train back and forth by having Company A buy it from Company B, then vice-versa. This train is never in a company at the end of that company's train running step, so according to the rules as written, no warranty is ever removed.

This might be useful in a number of different ways. One example is to avoid the 50% price reduction when M&A happens if a company has no train, though it would take a little planning to make this work. Another example is to "stockpile" a train while your companies have plenty of trains so you will be able to roll one out in your time of need.

Am I correct that the train will not lose a warranty until that train is in a company at the conclusion of the train running step, so that this shuffle is permitted?
 
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Mike Hutton
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I'm confused. Buying trains happens after running trains, so how can you keep buying across the train without running it?
 
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Samuel Hinz
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Easy

Company a : has no train to run. Buys train off company b.
Company b : has no train to run. Buys train off company a.

Rinse, repeat

At least that's my understanding of the question.
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Tyler McLaughlin
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What benefit would this provide exactly?
 
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Eric Brosius
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abodi wrote:
Easy

Company a : has no train to run. Buys train off company b.
Company b : has no train to run. Buys train off company a.

Rinse, repeat

At least that's my understanding of the question.

Correct. Or, Company A and B can have other trains to run, but sell this extra train back and forth.

One benefit is that a company's stock value might not be halved when it's time for M&A.
 
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Tyler McLaughlin
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Shady. I like it.
 
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I suggest adding a house rule to fix this problem.

"1 warranty will be removed when buying train(s) from company".

Thematic reason: The traded train is moved from Company A home base to Company B home base, so 1 warranty should be removed."

or

Divide into two cases:
"1 warranty will be removed when buying train(s) from company that has not operated in this operating round; no warranty will be removed if the selling company has already operated in the operating round".
 
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J C Lawrence
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Thing is, it isn't a problem.
 
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Eric Brosius
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clearclaw wrote:
Thing is, it isn't a problem.

I agree. I don't see it as a problem. I just imagined that if someone were to do this in a game, others might think it illegal. I really don't want to play a game, if possible, where people are using different rule sets, even if only in their minds. So it would be better to clarify it ahead of time.
 
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I think it is a serious problem...

As selling price of share will be halved if company do not have any train.

Train A with 1 free warranty only cost 100 UK dollar.And it may protect the selling price of share of two companies from being halved for the whole game.
It will make the game boring as well timing of selling shares is one of the interesting part of this game.

So I will stick to this house rule:
"1 warranty will be removed when buying train(s) from company that has not operated in this operating round; no warranty will be removed if the selling company has already operated in the operating round".
 
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Mike Hutton
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If it was a serious problem I would have already taken action against it. If you're going to merge seriously early (which is the justification with an A with warranties) or seriously late (ditto with Ds) then either you're sailing close to the wind or you've made a mistake. In either case there should be little problem with moving warrantied trains around. Stock price has little effect until the last 1/2 of the game anyway due to multiple jumps, so you shouldn't be too worried if you merge early with a trainless company. If you're doing this with Ds then the timing needs to be spot on or you're in trouble anyway.

Forced train shuffling normally means you're doing badly in this game.

You are of course at liberty to play with as many house rules as you like, but this one appears (at least to me) to be unnecessary additional rule which is as likely to be forgotten as it is to be exploited. I suspect you won't see this manoeuvre all that often anyway.
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J C Lawrence
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newbiebgg wrote:
As selling price of share will be halved if company do not have any train.


You are ignoring both operating order and the cost of not running the train. There is no problem here.
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marc magner
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clearclaw wrote:
newbiebgg wrote:
As selling price of share will be halved if company do not have any train.


You are ignoring both operating order and the cost of not running the train. There is no problem here.


not to mention the 1/2 the price of train "capital" which is tied up moving the train around....

its much better to just refinance.

 
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