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Subject: An Appeal to DB0 rss

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Alex Rockwell
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I'll start off by saying: DB0, you are the best! We all rely on you for the Netrunenr OCTGN plugin, and benefit tremendously from its existence.


But, I havent been playing much Netrunner on OCTGN recently. Not nearly as much as I used to. Part of that was due to a lull in sets for a while, but that wasnt the only reason.


The biggest reason is that the OCTGN Netrunner experience got way, WAY more frustrating, when DB0 added the requirement to wait for the Corp to say "OK", before the runner accesses cards.

Yes, we know that this is how the rules work. Yes, there are instances where a runner, usually an inexperienced runner, gets too jumpy and accesses cards, and the corp had an effect, or wanted to use Jackson Howard.

But the thing is, that just doesnt matter. Its not that hard to manually recover from a situation where that occurs, and its a pretty rare thing.

The thing that isnt rare is the runner trying to access cards, and then having the player's play experience be absolutely MURDERED by having to both be clicking on windows asking if its ok to access. Over and over and over again, all game long, every access.

Often I'll do things like get out Desperado and Datasucker, and run Archives several times. This should be fast. Instead, its not HELL to execute, with both the runner and corp players having to deal with stupid popups.

Hitting R&D several times with a medium? Just painful.


I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. In fact, most of the people I used to play online with, now are extremely reluctant to play Netrunner on OCTGN, and the main reason they cite is how much this new popup annoyance has killed the fun of the OCTGN netrunner experience.




So my plea to you, DB0:

PLEASE, for the love of all that is good, please remove the terrible, soulkilling requirement to wait for confirmations before the runner can access.

It doesnt add much at all, and it pretty much makes me not want to play on OCTGN anymore. When the last couple sets have come out, I've made decks, gone and played on OCTGN, and just been frustrated, every turn of the game, every run, when having to deal with this stupid popup. It kills the flow of the game, it kills the fun.


The number of games of netrunner played on OCTGN recently has dropped significantly in the past couple months:
http://84.205.248.92/slaghund/slagview.aspx

And its not just a holiday lull. Its the access confirmation popup killing the experience.
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Tobin Lopes
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I understand your frustration.

I learned early in this change that double-clicking on the "no reactions" "card" on the table top is the most efficient shortcut for the corp - unless you keep your finger on f3 to indicate the successful run.

Oh, and the corp can hit f3/no reactions anytime after the run is declared.

-tpl
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Kaiwen Zhang
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doesnt seem like a big deal to me, just press f3...
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Derrick Billings
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Alexfrog wrote:
And its not just a holiday lull. Its the access confirmation popup killing the experience.


Oh, so you know this for a fact, eh? Personally, I find the nightmarish lag to be be the real drawback, but I'm not sure there's anything to be done about it. At any rate, I've never had trouble finding a game, day or night.

I happen to like the access confirmation requirement, but what I don't like is people throwing the popup window in your face before you can even hit the "OK" button. But that's a minor annoyance, like having someone behind you at an intersection honk as soon as the light turns green. I have a laptop where I have to hold Fn+* to use my F# keys, so I'm a little slow. (My F12 key is FN+Toggle Wireless button so more than once I've ended my turn by DC'ing myself)

I *have* been wrecked by people who ran through my breakers without so much as a thank-you-kindly and never gave me the chance to, say, rez the Corporate Troubleshooter I snuck in behind the Janus for that exact reason. Busted into my advancement server and stole the game point before I could even say "you're dead." That kind of mistake is hard to walk back.
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David Annable
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I was bothered by it at first too, but it has since become rote. It would be nice if you could toggle it on a game-by-game basis when agreed upon by both players but as that is unlikely to happen, I'd rather it stay in.

 
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Alex Rockwell
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tobinlopes wrote:

Oh, and the corp can hit f3/no reactions anytime after the run is declared.
-tpl


Yes, but this requires the corp player to be very on the ball. (And in runs where there is no interaction with ice, its just always going to delay things).

The whole point is that its just makes things take longer, feel worse, and damages the flow of the play experience.


Over the course of the past year, the experience of playing Netrunner on OCTGN has steadily gotten worse and worse.

Mostly, this was due to the OCTGN developers themselves, making OCTGn stupider and more annoying via more popups looking for donations, worse color scheme, being slower, the non-subscriber delay they introduced for a while and then got rid of, etc. Essentially, due to the shittyness of the OCTGN developers.


But this one is directly under the control of DB0. The others arent his fault, but this one he can actually fix, and that is my appeal. DB0, please make Netrunner on OCTGN as good an experience as possible, for all the ways under your control.
 
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Give me a break. The confirmation is a lifesaver when dealing with rules mistakes and reaction cards, and it takes all of 1 second to click "OK" for all the other cases.
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Alex Rockwell
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johncraven wrote:
doesnt seem like a big deal to me, just press f3...


As the runner, just wait until the corp, who is usually slow to react, hits F3. Over and over again, all game long.


As the corp, be required to hit a button every single time, whereas before you didnt have to do anything annoying.

The current situation is just strictly worse. Maybe for you, youve developed a way to cope with it so it doesnt annoy you too much. But that doesnt mean that we wouldnt be better off if it was eliminated.
 
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Derrick Billings
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Alexfrog wrote:
And its not just a holiday lull. Its the access confirmation popup killing the experience.


Looks like a combination of holiday lull and post-Worlds to me. The high-water marks were when Regionals, Gen Con, and Plugged-In tour were in full swing, then Worlds. January's not even half over and is approaching December's total turnout, so it's on track to be an increase over the holiday month. So I think the dropoff is easily accounted for by the tournament schedule and holidays.

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Grish Noren
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There should probably be a better way to do it; but the feature needs to exist. I'd seen a couple games ruined before the feature existed.

If the scripts recognized the concept of a "server" it might be possible to have more automatic programming, where each piece of ice is actually a step; but this would also tip opponents to the existence of "tricky" cards if it becomes too automatic.

I find other things about the system more annoying, such as features that don't always work the same from card to card and the hidden methods for activating certain things. Just the other day while trying to drag a damage dealing asset it activated killing the runner. While I wished as a corp that that strategy actually worked, the false double click ultimately killed the game.
 
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Loren B
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I've played 2 whole games on OCTGN. And one of them was against DB0. And I'm not much of a programmer. So I'm really qualified to opine. Nonetheless, would it be possible to set some sort of toggle? So that games with anxious newbies like myself would require it and casual games between skilled friends would not?
 
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Alex Rockwell
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DrTall wrote:
Give me a break. The confirmation is a lifesaver when dealing with rules mistakes and reaction cards, and it takes all of 1 second to click "OK" for all the other cases.


The rules mistakes or the runner not waiting when there is a reaction have happened to me a couple times ever. On the other hand, the popup kills the experience for me and makes it unfun, pretty much every game.


I guess it doesnt kill it for you. The question is: For what percentage of the netrunner population is this change harming their desire to play the game?
 
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Also, Hit F3 three times in a row.
 
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Daniel D
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Grimwalker wrote:
I *have* been wrecked by people who ran through my breakers without so much as a thank-you-kindly and never gave me the chance to, say, rez the Corporate Troubleshooter I snuck in behind the Janus for that exact reason. Busted into my advancement server and stole the game point before I could even say "you're dead." That kind of mistake is hard to walk back.


This. There were several times when I've had players end their run prematurely upon hitting a Snare! before the effect could resolve and tag them when I had a rezzed DRT waiting to kill them. Much to their surprise I had to explain to them that they were flatlined as they continued their turn. Once players learn to slow down I'd be happy to give them more control overall, until then forcing them to wait on the corp to react is a step in the right direction.

Also, if a player has a scored False Lead, take a five second pause between your second and third actions. I've also had players get upset at me for forcing them to back up to the end of action 2 because they can't wait a few seconds.
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David Annable
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Here's what DB0 thinks about your suggestion:

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Derrick Billings
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Dovian wrote:
Also, if a player has a scored False Lead, take a five second pause between your second and third actions. I've also had players get upset at me for forcing them to back up to the end of action 2 because they can't wait a few seconds.


That's fairly easy to walk back--it's the agenda-stealing that is annoying to undo, because now the runner knows where they are, exactly what it needs to be advanced to score, the game is all fragged up.

I've often wished for an "Undo" action, I don't know how feasible that would be.
 
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Geoff Hollis
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I echo Alexfrog's sentiment. I appreciate the work that goes into the OCTGN plugin, but it is getting progressively more cumbersome to use. Often it feels like my gaming experience is being crushed under the burden of infrastructure that is being forced upon me, but is only relevant in obscure contexts. i.e., I am playing with:

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Daniel D
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Grimwalker wrote:
That's fairly easy to walk back--it's the agenda-stealing that is annoying to undo, because now the runner knows where they are, exactly what it needs to be advanced to score, the game is all fragged up.

I've often wished for an "Undo" action, I don't know how feasible that would be.


Oh I'm not saying it's hard to walk back False Leads, but in general runners could avoid a lot of (self-imposed) frustration by being patient in pretty much all of these cases.
 
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Konstantinos Thoukydidis
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About the lower amount of people playing : this was simply because the statsserver died mid December and we lost all the results in that period. Sad but true.

As for the feature:look I can see both sides of the coin but I don't think it's possible to please all people hhere. Before this feature people were complaining about people who rush and were asking me for a way to stop it. Now some are not happy that they can't play faster. It's impossible to caterto both sides.

What I'd love to hear is some suggestions for improvements. I was thinking perhaps an option in the game menu that a player can select and it would ask yourr oopponent if you want to play a fast game. If the other player agrees I could set them to always pre acknowledge the run success. Or maybe a s saved setting that when set by both players would switch to fast mode.

Honestly though I've been playing a lot recently and most players are quick on the Ok button. I never felt the game was frustratingly slow. But I'm willing to try and improve for all ppreferences.
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Konstantinos Thoukydidis
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Btw why are you seeing a popup so often? I real only see it when I actually forget to acknowledge the run. If you press F3 or the button as soon as you have nothing else to do, then you should never be getting one
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Alex Rockwell
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DbZer0 wrote:
About the lower amount of people playing : this was simply because the statsserver died mid December and we lost all the results in that period. Sad but true.


I stand corrected on the number of players playing.


Is this mostly a personal thing then, whee me and several people I play with are being frustrated by this, and no one else is?

Or is it more common?
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Aaron J
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DbZer0 wrote:


Honestly though I've been playing a lot recently and most players are quick on the Ok button. I never felt the game was frustratingly slow. But I'm willing to try and improve for all ppreferences.


A menu setting (only settable by the corp) along the lines of auto-acknowledge successful runs could address everyone's issues and puts the power in the corp (who IMO should have the ability to say I do/don't care).

I find that a lot of time my frustration with OCTGN matches is the speed at which players decide and act, but this is more of a meta-matchmaking issue than a simple button. Maybe a fast player acronym is needed

While on the lines of improving use, is there any way to allow for custom key mappings? Being able to map custom short cuts for F1,F3,F12,Ctrl+C, etc could really make the game faster. Also would make mac keyboards a lot less clunky!
 
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Alexfrog wrote:
Is this mostly a personal thing then, whee me and several people I play with are being frustrated by this, and no one else is?

Or is it more common?


I've personally found it to do more good than harm in my games. Especially due to the fact that no one uses the "Access Imminent" buttons from what I've seen. Allowing the corps to be the gatekeepers of their own cards is more beneficial than shaving a few seconds off. Though to be fair I use more janky cards than most, I react with Dedicated Response Teams and Bernice Mai more than Jackson Howard lately...

The only times I've gotten the pop up window are when I'm taking a sip of a drink and miss the notice, or the runner just smashes F3 twice because they're impatient.
 
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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There's a plethora of things to be horribly annoyed about in both OCTGN and the plugin itself, but pressing one key during the run, which was introduced to stick to the rules, isn't one of them.
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