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Subject: Future of the COIN Series? rss

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Geoffrey Wilson
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Would the designers of the excellent COIN Series be willing to share what future conflicts the series may cover?

I own only ADP, and will definitely buy Fire in the Lake at some point.

Just to comment, for future entries in the series, I'd be most interested to see:

1. The French war in Algeria (Not sure if there would be 4 factions to really make it work in the usual system?)

2. The Philippines-American War (I think I'd be most interested in that one actually, partially since it's such a relatively early period.)

3. The ongoing Moros insurgency in the Philippines

4. The Iraq War (I could definitely see the factions as Coalition, Iraqi Government, Sunni (or maybe Jihadist?) Militias, and Shia Militias. This could have more cities than ADP too; Baghdad and Fallujah at least.)

Thanks for any thoughts and information!

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Richard Pardoe
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something wrote:
Would the designers of the excellent COIN Series be willing to share what future conflicts the series may cover?

The recent Washington Post article discussing Volko mentioned (my emphasis):

Quote:
When not ensconced at HQ in Langley, Ruhnke, 51, designs commercial wargames. He has invited us to his home in Vienna to playtest his most recent, A Distant Plain. Along with Cuba Libre, they’ll be his fourth and fifth published board games, and the latest in his series simulating insurgencies throughout history: Colombia, Afghanistan and Cuba, with Vietnam, Ireland and the Philippines to follow.
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Brian Train
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Future games in the series have been discussed many times, both in threads here on BGG and on CSW, and in person with Volko.

Algeria - has been discussed and personally I don't see how you could make this a viable 4-player game.
Moro War 1900 - this has been mooted and I think it might work.
Moros nowadays - this is being worked on, under the title "Iron Butterfly" (no BGG entry yet)
Iraq - Volko had this in mind from the beginning, so one day he will do it.

Other candidates we've discussed:

WW2 Yugoslavia - I'd like to work on this one
Ireland - both the early 20C civil war and the post 1969 Troubles are the subject of serious interest, the Civil War one is being worked on with the title "A Terrible Beauty".
Angola - another one Volko had in mind from the start

Brian
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killy9999
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ltmurnau wrote:
Algeria - has been discussed and personally I don't see how you could make this a viable 4-player game.
It will be a bit boring if all games in COIN series will be 4-player Wny not make it 3- (or 5- ?) player?
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Peder Bergenwall
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killy9999 wrote:
ltmurnau wrote:
Algeria - has been discussed and personally I don't see how you could make this a viable 4-player game.
It will be a bit boring if all games in COIN series will be 4-player Wny not make it 3- (or 5- ?) player?

A COIN game with a different player count would certainly be interesting. I love the games I have (AA and CL), but having even more variety within the series would be fantastic.
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O.Shane Balloun
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Quote:
Ireland


Please take my money, right now.
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Joel Tamburo
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I too would be in for a COIN volume on The Troubles (Ireland).

I also love the idea of WW2 Yugoslavia but have problems figuring out 4 players. I get:

1) Germans

2) Tito

3) Chetniks

What would the fourth be?
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Wendell
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Joelist wrote:
I too would be in for a COIN volume on The Troubles (Ireland).

I also love the idea of WW2 Yugoslavia but have problems figuring out 4 players. I get:

1) Germans

2) Tito

3) Chetniks

What would the fourth be?


The Ustaše (Croatian fascists/nationists).
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Tiggo Morrison
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Quote:
Ireland - both the early 20C civil war and the post 1969 Troubles are the subject of serious interest, the Civil War one is being worked on with the title "A Terrible Beauty".


Oh Joy, oh utter joy!
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Jack Francisco
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I wonder what challenges would be involved in using a Twilight Struggle/1989 style system in a 4p game? The COIN system seems really fiddly, in my opinion.
 
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Mike Owens
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How much interest would there be in a COIN volume on the Chechen Wars?
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Ingólfur Valsson
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wifwendell wrote:
Joelist wrote:
I too would be in for a COIN volume on The Troubles (Ireland).

I also love the idea of WW2 Yugoslavia but have problems figuring out 4 players. I get:

1) Germans

2) Tito

3) Chetniks

What would the fourth be?


The Ustaše (Croatian fascists/nationists).


Would it be that simple. I do not know enough history to be sure but the area was ran as a series of puppet states, Croatia, National Salvation (Serbia) and Montenegro, by Germany and Italy. I guess they as government could be joined together as government type under the axis term. Or we could see local governments + axis as separate factions like USA + Afghan in ADP.

I guess Chetniks and Ustase can be joined together like FARC and ELN but I doubt that will work as Ustase was very anti-Serb and Chetniks worked against Axis up to a point, so those 3 as Insurgents should give interesting results.
 
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Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
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Quote:
How much interest would there be in a COIN volume on the Chechen Wars?


A lot!
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JE SUIS VENU. J'AI VU. JE SUIS PARTI.
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BALKANS!!!
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Geoffrey Wilson
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Thank you for the responses; apologies that this has been discussed already!

I'm most excited for the pre-Cold War games. Insurgency and COIN are only a sideshow (if even that) in the great majority of WWII games, (which makes sense; it was a mostly conventional war) but exploring the war in Yugoslavia would be very interesting. A good friend of mine's father fought as a Communist partisan there.

I would love the event cards for a 1900 Philippines game. I'd hope there'd be one for American anti-imperialist sentiment back home, maybe have Mark Twain on the card!

I will say too; I love the titles for the COIN games. They're always evocative of the conflict/period, and sometimes rather poetic. (i.e. "A Distnat Plain".)
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Eric Guttag
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Hey Joel,

The British would be a good 4th, who were very active in Yugoslavia and eventually aligned with Tito's group but also considered aligning with the Chetniks (if I recall correctly). The was some stuff on the Military Channel about the British involvement in Yugoslavia in WWII.
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killy9999 wrote:
It will be a bit boring if all games in COIN series will be 4-player Wny not make it 3- (or 5- ?) player?


I think it was one of the designers (Brian? Volko?) who said a 3-player game would quickly turn into a 2 on 1. A 5-player game sounds neat but it would require more effort finding balance and building up a new bot, and would require more of a player commitment so sells might falter.

Brian
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Brian Train
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Sorry, bit late to the discussion but Eric has it right - the British (actually Wallies) would be the 4th player, with few or no actual forces on the ground but in the position of being able to provide good werewithal.

A COIN system game doesn't absolutely have to have 4 factions, but that's how it seems to work best.
Two is just another wargame.
Three inevitably ends up as two on one, the "one" changing a couple of times during the game.
Four is where it starts to get interesting, as a two on two can have some depth (se what we've don in A Distant Plain) and a three on one alliance is unstable because someone is going to come out of it better than the other two.
Five and up would be even better and more realistic, but practically it's hard to get that many players together at once for FTF (the best mode of play) and with each player added, it gets harder and harder to strike the right balances and asymmetries (and let's not even talk about writing that many bots).
More players also extends playing time.
So, four seems to be the sweet spot.

Brian
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Brian Train
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Yeah, what other-Brian said - I was typing out what he said at greater length while he actually posted it!
Plainly I need to be more succinct (or at least cryptic) in my posts.

Brian
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If WW2 is in consideration then I wish to see a Greek resistance game. We had ΕΑΜ/ELAS (marxist resistance party), EDES (centre-right resistance party who got support by the British), EKKA (Psarros - center-left former allies of EAM) and of course the Axis forces. The battles between the 3 organisations were as frequent as these with Axis forces, in order to prepare the country for the day after liberation (we had civil war till 1949 eventually)
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Brian Train
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That's an interesting concept, but I don't see enough asymmetry in the methods or motives of the factions in the Greek resistance movement to make a compelling game for the COIN system.

It would make a very interesting multi-player game though, and one you could extend from the initial phase of the resistance in 1942 to the ultimate victory of one faction as it becomes and remains Greece's government (historically, in 1949).

In a few months my game on the 1947-49 Greek Civil War will come out in Modern War magazine The Greek Civil War, 1947-49. It's geared for this last phase of the conflict specifically, and I had to switch out the system originally used in the game (a development of the one used in Algeria: The War of Independence 1954-1962) for one developed by Joe Miranda for his game Decision: Iraq, but certainly, something could be worked out to cover this topic... I just don't think Volko's COIN system would be a good fit for it.

Brian
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Steve Carey
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ltmurnau wrote:
Three inevitably ends up as two on one, the "one" changing a couple of times during the game.


In a hypothetical 3-player COIN game, it's imperative to ensure that the two-who-are-against-the-one also have plenty of motive and opportunity to impede each other. Choosing the right situation is obviously key.

I'm exploring a 3-player COIN option where each major faction controls a minor faction, which collectively serves as the 4th player faction on the card. This adds another layer of decision-making to the system, and potentially gives players something quick to do on a turn when otherwise they are ineligible.

It's up to testing to determine whether this model will work or not, however.
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Brian Train
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Interesting notion Steve, I'd like to hear how it works out.

Brian
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Paul H
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Any thoughts on a COIN series game involving Weimar Germany or the Russian Revolution?
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Ernie Blofeld
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Having read A Savage War of Peace I'd love to see COIN go to Algeria as well. But as the thread starter mentioned, there's the pesky problem of the fourth faction.

The French Army, Pied Noirs, and FLN are obvious factions, but groups like the OAS, harkis, metropolitan France, and smaller Algerian independence groups seem like they would be better handled by cards or tracks.

My suggestion would be to split the 'Internal' and 'External' elements of the FLN into separate factions similar to the NVA/Viet Cong in the upcoming Fire in the Lake.*

There was plenty of tension between the external FLN in Tunisia/Morocco and the FLN 'in country' just as there were plenty of differences between the goals of the French Army and the Pied Noirs.

The two elements within each 'side' would have differing visions of victory which could lead to some delicious COIN tension goodness.


*Key differences, external FLN recruits insurgents in Tunisia/Morocco only (unless they have a base), and want support. Internals want control, recruit in Algeria only.

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