Recommend
16 
 Thumb up
 Hide
36 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Chit Chat

Subject: Torn between a job I'll like for less, or a job I'll tolerate for more. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jonny Lawless
United States
Bountiful
Utah
flag msg tools
Four crazy kids and happy as a clam!
badge
My name is Glenn! Long have I carried Cyrus's hopes and dreams, and now I bear the Masamune as well! Henceforth, I claim them as my own! I shall slay the Fiendlord Magus and restore our honor!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Started a new job today. Looks like I'll be able to perform the work, but perhaps not love it, or even really like it. During training I got a call with another offer for a government position that'll give me more time off, likely a better environment, certainly better duties and nice benefits, but a lot less salarywise (25% or so!).

I've always thought that doing something you like would trump more money, but with 2 kids and a mortgage it's a lot harder to wax idealistic. Not sure what to do.
14 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Case
United States
Greensboro
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jonnylawless wrote:
I've always thought that doing something you like would trump more money, but with 2 kids and a mortgage it's a lot harder to wax idealistic.


Precisely -- therein lies the problem; therein lies the solution.

For me, there would be no indecision, and very little looking back; I would simply shrug, gird my loins, and do what ought to be done. Taking a job that offers more pleasure but less money is, quite frankly, a luxury, and one that few folks can afford, but providing for one's family in the best way possible is a responsibility, and choosing to live up to our responsibilities is one of the primary hallmarks of both maturity and wisdom.

I think where too many folks go wrong is that they want to find a job that "fulfills" them, but somehow overlook that there is greater, deeper, and far more meaningful fulfillment to be found in being a good provider.

If the choice were between two jobs that offered equal remuneration, that would be a different discussion, and if there were nobody depending on you, that too would be a different discussion, but real life is simply what is, and not often the way we might wish it to be.

Best to you as you go forward with your decision.

15 
 Thumb up
1.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Leonard Moses II
United States
Hixson
Tennessee
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I would take the 25% less job and pledge to live at a maximized level of responsibility in all other areas of life, or cut out fluff that you used to spend money on. Then if you would miss the fluff more than you dislike the better paying job you must need to be less happy at work to be more happy outside of work. Pledge yourself fully to whatever you choose. It makes it easier.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John O'Haver
United States
Louisville
Kentucky
flag msg tools
badge
Pet photographer, that's me.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The job you don't like pays 33% more than the other one.

Think like a marketing person...


NEW JOB! NOW WITH THIRTY THREE PERCENT MORE MONEY than the other job!

6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wendell
United States
Yellow Springs
Ohio
flag msg tools
Si non potes reperire Berolini in tabula, ludens essetis non WIF.
badge
Hey, get your stinking cursor off my face! I got nukes, you know.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
scribidinus wrote:
The job you don't like pays 33% more than the other one.


This is true, but although highly important, the dollars aren't the only thing. If the job you would like (and which would also give you more time off) is much better for your mental health, etc etc, well there are trade-offs.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
☆ ✧ ☆ ✧ ☆
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Looking at these stars suddenly dwarfed my own troubles and all the gravities of terrestrial life. I thought of their unfathomable distance, and the slow inevitable drift of their movements out of the unknown past into the unknown future. H.G. Wells
badge
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. Chief Seattle
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What is behind door number three?
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
fightcitymayor
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
"This is a really weird game, and you’ll find that most people will not want to play this."
Avatar
mb
Gambiteer wrote:
I think where too many folks go wrong is that they want to find a job that "fulfills" them, but somehow overlook that there is greater, deeper, and far more meaningful fulfillment to be found in being a good provider.
Wow, I don't think I could disagree more. If one could "provide" just fine with the 25% less job, but be more happy & fulfilled, I would say that is obviously the "greater good." I remember working a job I hated, and it affected my outlook, it affected my happiness, and it affected my family. When I finally left that job my wife said, "You're so much happier now, you were always so angry when you came home from that job." So don't think that working a job you detest won't find its way into your home-life and have repercussions from there.

I see a lot of BGG'ers that seem shackled to the idea that you must have a full-time job, you must take the job that pays the most, and you must then put your head down, "gird your loins, and do what must be done" for the rest of your mortal life. I think this attitude has contributed to a metric tonne of human dissatisfaction in the last 100 years. We only get 1 life, why waste it in misery, pretending that your misery is serving some greater good of being "the provider?" Doesn't make sense to me.

26 
 Thumb up
0.50
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex H.
Germany
Berlin
flag msg tools
badge
welcome your reptilian overlords!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's a bit hard to tell without knowing your overall financial situation and how big a problem that 25% less in salary would really be. If it doesn't mean you have to make significant sacrifices, I'd personally go for the less-paid job.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Tagge
China
Guangzhou
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
fightcitymayor wrote:
Wow, I don't think I could disagree more. If one could "provide" just fine with the 25% less job, but be more happy & fulfilled, I would say that is obviously the "greater good." I remember working a job I hated, and it affected my outlook, it affected my happiness, and it affected my family. When I finally left that job my wife said, "You're so much happier now, you were always so angry when you came home from that job." So don't think that working a job you detest won't find its way into your home-life and have repercussions from there.

I see a lot of BGG'ers that seem shackled to the idea that you must have a full-time job, you must take the job that pays the most, and you must then put your head down, "gird your loins, and do what must be done" for the rest of your mortal life. I think this attitude has contributed to a metric tonne of human dissatisfaction in the last 100 years. We only get 1 life, why waste it in misery, pretending that your misery is serving some greater good of being "the provider?" Doesn't make sense to me.

Couldn't agree more. Keep in mind that the government job probably has better stability and a "reasonable" pension plan. Time off to spend with your family (and attend the kid's big ball game/concert/performance/birthday) I think is more important.

P.S. What message are you sending to your children when you choose a job solely based on the dollar amount on the pay stub? Are you comfortable with that message?
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
I bought some shoes from a drug dealer. I don’t know what he laced them with, but I’ve been tripping all day.
United States
Kansas City
Missouri
flag msg tools
badge
I think that all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
fightcitymayor wrote:
Gambiteer wrote:
I think where too many folks go wrong is that they want to find a job that "fulfills" them, but somehow overlook that there is greater, deeper, and far more meaningful fulfillment to be found in being a good provider.
Wow, I don't think I could disagree more. If one could "provide" just fine with the 25% less job, but be more happy & fulfilled, I would say that is obviously the "greater good." I remember working a job I hated, and it affected my outlook, it affected my happiness, and it affected my family. When I finally left that job my wife said, "You're so much happier now, you were always so angry when you came home from that job." So don't think that working a job you detest won't find its way into your home-life and have repercussions from there.

I see a lot of BGG'ers that seem shackled to the idea that you must have a full-time job, you must take the job that pays the most, and you must then put your head down, "gird your loins, and do what must be done" for the rest of your mortal life. I think this attitude has contributed to a metric tonne of human dissatisfaction in the last 100 years. We only get 1 life, why waste it in misery, pretending that your misery is serving some greater good of being "the provider?" Doesn't make sense to me.


This.

Look at it this way: "Yes, I would be paid less, but I'll have more time for my family, more time to play g*m*s, I can leave my work at the office every day, and generally have less stress in my life." That sounds like a no-brainer to me.

That being said, you should really be discussing this with your wife. What would make her happier? "Happy wife, happy life".
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave, or "Phineas" or "Tolstoy" or,
United States
Mount Holly
North Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Consider also the value of the other "benefits" you mentioned. Although the pay may be less for one job, how much of the pay of the better-paying job would be eaten up providing for similar benefits? For instance, various insurances, 401k match perhaps, etc.

Most folks work in jobs they don't like a whole lot. That's why you get paid. If it were all happy-fun-time, you would go to work for free, right? That said, there is a difference between "like it," "tolerate it," and "crap why did I ever take this job I hate it!" Where does the better-paying job fall on that spectrum?

And yeah, your wife could have great advice too. Just weigh any possible loss of things that may have to be cut if you take the lesser-paying job. As long as everyone can handle those consequences and is willing to live by them, perhaps the one you may like better is the better choice. But taking less pay, and living outside your means, and running up more debt, isn't smart either.

What about further advancement? If the higher-paying job starts there, but goes nowhere, maybe the lesser-paying one starts lower but offers better opportunities for advancement.

But, man... 33% more for the higher paying one? That's a toughie. 25 years ago, I took one that paid 50% more than one I already accepted. But everything else about it was better too, so it was a no brainer. On the other hand, looking back, it has not offered chances of advancement, and I have had to move 500 miles to keep it, and have taken contract concessions more than once, so there's that too.

But hey! Let's not forget the most important part! Congratulations on actually having a choice of employment!! Most folks would be ecstatic for either option!

(This post has swung back and forth like a pendulum. I don't know if anything I wrote is actually any help!)
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
¡dn ʇǝƃ ʇ,uɐɔ ı puɐ uǝllɐɟ ǝʌ,ı
Canada
Chestermere
Alberta
flag msg tools
Life lesson: Hamsters are NOT diswasher safe.
badge
There are 10 types of people-- those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
¡dn ʇǝƃ ʇ,uɐɔ ı puɐ uǝllɐɟ ǝʌ,ı
Canada
Chestermere
Alberta
flag msg tools
Life lesson: Hamsters are NOT diswasher safe.
badge
There are 10 types of people-- those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
claymore_57 wrote:
Look at it this way: "Yes, I would be paid less, but I'll have more time for my family, more time to play g*m*s, I can leave my work at the office every day, and generally have less stress in my life." That sounds like a no-brainer to me.

That being said, you should really be discussing this with your wife. What would make her happier? "Happy wife, happy life".

The value of less stress cannot be quantified in $.
My wife was caught in a bad situation at work, where one company had bought the one she was working for and then "centralized" services, meaning she did the same job but another 45 minute drive away (twice per day) at slightly less money.
She stuck with it for 3 months and I convinced her that she should find another job because I didn't want to go coffin shopping when her stress levels caused a body meltdown.
The new job is only 5 minutes from home, and pays less money, but she's far happier and the savings in time, gas, and stress makes me think she's ahead on the deal.

She's very glad that I talked her into it.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John O'Haver
United States
Louisville
Kentucky
flag msg tools
badge
Pet photographer, that's me.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Consider keeping the higher paying job but living like you took the lower pay. It's the best (or worst) of both worlds.

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luke Morris
England
Faversham
Kent
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
More time off with kids and wife.

You'll wish you had when your kids are all moved out and you're too old to do physical holiday / day out stuff.



Of course you should have the conversation with your wife though. My wife and I are both agreed that we'd rather that I/she did work we liked for less than hate every day at work for more. As long as bills are paid and food is on the table then we're richer with more time off and happy in an environment where we spend a LOT of each day - i.e. work.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Brannan
United States
Rockville
Maryland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jonnylawless wrote:
Started a new job today. Looks like I'll be able to perform the work, but perhaps not love it, or even really like it. During training I got a call with another offer for a government position that'll give me more time off, likely a better environment, certainly better duties and nice benefits, but a lot less salarywise (25% or so!).

I've always thought that doing something you like would trump more money, but with 2 kids and a mortgage it's a lot harder to wax idealistic. Not sure what to do.


More money is something that comes with time in a job. If you're in a federal job, you're likely being brought in as a step 1 in whatever pay grade. That 25% can be made back up in a fairly short time. More time off usually doesn't kick in in the private sector for 5-10 years. Benefits are being slashed in the private sector, and they can account for a non-insignificant amount of money. A better environment and better duties can be fairly transient things, but when you've got them it can make the whole rest of your life better.

If you have the opportunity before you have to make a final decision, take a look and calculate out the actual cost differences. Figure out the difference in health plan costs, anticipated out of pocket costs, days of leave, retirement plans, even commuting distance (gas ain't cheap). It's quite likely that you'll find that the actual pay difference isn't as large as you think. And absolutely do not underestimate the value of being in a position that delivers higher personal satisfaction.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Y.
United States
Fredericksburg
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I would actually compare the wages of your previous job to the job you'd like more. What's the percentage difference there?

Without knowing your current financial situation, you might look at say it would only be a 5% decrease in pay and you've been getting along just fine with your previous job's compensation.

4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve K
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
...
badge
...
Avatar
A recent article summarizing the views of 1000 elderly Americans:

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/01/13/10-money-le...

#s 1, 2 & 4 seem particularly relevant.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hiding Tiger
Australia
Parmelia
Western Australia
flag msg tools
Grrrrrrrrowf!
badge
Grrrrr aaarrrggghhh
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gambiteer wrote:
Taking a job that offers more pleasure but less money is, quite frankly, a luxury, and one that few folks can afford...
This largely sums it up. If you can afford the luxury of the lesser paying job, then take the one that will give you the most enjoyment/least stress. But if you can't afford that, then the question was rhetorical, wasn't it?
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Xander Fulton
United States
Astoria
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Cringing Dragon wrote:
Gambiteer wrote:
Taking a job that offers more pleasure but less money is, quite frankly, a luxury, and one that few folks can afford...
This largely sums it up. If you can afford the luxury of the lesser paying job, then take the one that will give you the most enjoyment/least stress. But if you can't afford that, then the question was rhetorical, wasn't it?


I think that's the question many are missing, and it answers the entire debate.

You know what your expenses are, what you need to save up for in the future (retirement? college fund? new car? etc), and how much you want to set aside each month for an emergency fund.

You don't need infinite money, what you need is to fund all of the above channels, and then you don't actually need any more.

Will the 'more fulfilling/less pay' job achieve that? Then it's a no brainer, OBVIOUSLY take that one. Will it NOT do that? Then do a quick check and see if you can make any adjustments to your savings/cost demands that would let it fit. Can you? Groovy, take that job, then! You can't? Well, that's a shame - keep the less desirable but better paying job.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon M
United Kingdom
Hitchin
Herts
flag msg tools
Avatar
What if it turns out the job you think you'll like more sucks? Could be you get a new boss after a month who hates your guts, or there is zero career progression, or the government decide to close that office or relocate to Tampa or whatever.

The future is uncertain - a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, take the money.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luke Morris
England
Faversham
Kent
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I can't remember who said it but I always think of the quote "No-one ever died wishing they'd spent more time at work."
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Edwards
United States
Everett
Washington
flag msg tools
YA R'LYAH
badge
Phnglui mglw nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah nagl fhtagn! With cheeze!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The crux of it does seem to be on if the 25% less job is enough money. That can be hard to decide - one does get used to certain levels of income (and discretionary income), so reducing that can indeed be stressful. Coming close to not meeting basic needs (and therefore not having any spare $$ for fun, repairs, unexpected emergencies, etc.) is most certainly stressful.

On the other hand, as stated in the comments by the elderly (and in general in my reading), people are generally much happier doing something they like for a living, and nobody looks back and says they wish they spent more time at work (unless they totally love their work). For me, certainly, work is something I do as I have to. I enjoy it (mostly), but if I had the means, I'd own a game store and "work" there at will.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Case
United States
Greensboro
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Cringing Dragon wrote:
Gambiteer wrote:
Taking a job that offers more pleasure but less money is, quite frankly, a luxury, and one that few folks can afford...
This largely sums it up. If you can afford the luxury of the lesser paying job, then take the one that will give you the most enjoyment/least stress. But if you can't afford that, then the question was rhetorical, wasn't it?


This is exactly right. Some of the other respondents seem to be overlooking that the OP's choice doesn't involve a job he will despise, only one that he may not like much, and obviously the financial factor is a large consideration, else the question wouldn't have been asked.

Had the question been about a truly detested job situation, my answer would have been different -- my first job was like that, and taught me early that the size of the paycheck is not the only factor in taking a job.

At the end of the day, however, the blessings and responsibilities of having a family trump everything else, and sometimes the size of the paycheck may indeed render other considerations moot.

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Anye Freer
United States
Frisco
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Chanfan wrote:
The crux of it does seem to be on if the 25% less job is enough money. That can be hard to decide - one does get used to certain levels of income (and discretionary income), so reducing that can indeed be stressful. Coming close to not meeting basic needs (and therefore not having any spare $$ for fun, repairs, unexpected emergencies, etc.) is most certainly stressful.

On the other hand, as stated in the comments by the elderly (and in general in my reading), people are generally much happier doing something they like for a living, and nobody looks back and says they wish they spent more time at work (unless they totally love their work). For me, certainly, work is something I do as I have to. I enjoy it (mostly), but if I had the means, I'd own a game store and "work" there at will.


You beat me to it

The answer is different depending on whether the lower salary covers your bills and still leaves you with a little something extra. You can't shirk your obligations; if making ends meet on the lower salary is going to be a problem, don't do it - keep looking for the best of both worlds and wait to switch til you find it. If however it's just a difference in how much "play" money you have left at the end of the day then take the job you'll enjoy.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.