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Subject: Pennsylvania voter ID law struck down rss

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Professor of Pain
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Pennsylvania judge strikes down state's voter ID law

In the ruling (link to PDF) the judge noted:
1) the law doesn't grant authority to issue IDs that were easier to obtain, and that the law was unconstitutional on its face because without the unauthorized "easier ID,"

2)it's too burdensome on "hundreds of thousands" of voters affected, especially students and the elderly.

3) there is no compelling interest behind the law because in-person voter fraud isn't a problem

4) other stuff


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jeremy cobert
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Certainly good news for democRATS ! bad news for legal voters.
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David
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jeremycobert wrote:
Certainly good news for democRATS ! bad news for legal voters.


Bad news for all that voter fraud that never happened in the state?
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いい竹やぶだ!

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Good on the judge for acknowledging that voter fraud isn't a significant problem. Amazing how proponents of voter suppression manage to ignore that fact time and time again.
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Boaty McBoatface
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jeremycobert wrote:
Certainly good news for democRATS ! bad news for legal voters.
Bad news for RepubliCONS! Good news for universal franchise.
 
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jeremy cobert
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robigo wrote:
Good on the judge for acknowledging that voter fraud isn't a significant problem. Amazing how proponents of voter suppression manage to ignore that fact time and time again.


how would he know it is or not ? Voter fraud is one of the hardest crimes to investigate and catch.

here is my favorite case of voter fraud in PA
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/votes-romney-dozens-black-vot...

also the U.S. Supreme Court which has already ruled voter ID laws to be constitutional. much like leftists complain about Obamacare being rules on. talk about a double standard !

 
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Junior McSpiffy
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Okay, so my question then would be what options are available which would help clean up voter rolls and bring some sense of order to the process, while still protecting those who are eligible to vote? I think saying "it's not a problem" isn't quite a valid cop-out when every attempt to track its occurrence is being neutered. Let's talk alternatives.
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Boaty McBoatface
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jeremycobert wrote:
robigo wrote:
Good on the judge for acknowledging that voter fraud isn't a significant problem. Amazing how proponents of voter suppression manage to ignore that fact time and time again.


how would he know it is or not ? Voter fraud is one of the hardest crimes to investigate and catch.

here is my favorite case of voter fraud in PA
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/votes-romney-dozens-black-vot...

also the U.S. Supreme Court which has already ruled voter ID laws to be constitutional. much like leftists complain about Obamacare being rules on. talk about a double standard !

Yes, black people voting must be fraud. I also would point out that if ballots were counted twice, ID cards would not prevent that. In addition why would ID cards stop people making false applications (and there is no evidacen "Adolf Hitler" was allowed to vote.

How do you prevent actual vote fraud? How do you prevent ballots being counted, make sure voting machines work, or false applications? One way is A national DNA data base of all voters, and the needed to pass a DNA test to vote, lets get behind a real attempt to tackle voter fraud.
 
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Rich Shipley
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GameCrossing wrote:
Okay, so my question then would be what options are available which would help clean up voter rolls and bring some sense of order to the process, while still protecting those who are eligible to vote? I think saying "it's not a problem" isn't quite a valid cop-out when every attempt to track its occurrence is being neutered. Let's talk alternatives.


If we want voting security, let's have universal ID and eliminate separate voter registration while we're at it. It will increase participation and increase security.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Drew1365 wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Okay, so my question then would be what options are available which would help clean up voter rolls and bring some sense of order to the process, while still protecting those who are eligible to vote?


Cleaning up voter rolls is racist. Eric Holder said so.
If your evidacen for voter fraud is too many blacks voting I can see why he might think that.
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Junior McSpiffy
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rshipley wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Okay, so my question then would be what options are available which would help clean up voter rolls and bring some sense of order to the process, while still protecting those who are eligible to vote? I think saying "it's not a problem" isn't quite a valid cop-out when every attempt to track its occurrence is being neutered. Let's talk alternatives.


If we want voting security, let's have universal ID and eliminate separate voter registration while we're at it. It will increase participation and increase security.


But we've been told that getting an ID is a hardship for some. In PA, people had two years full notice that an ID would be needed, and they couldn't find an opportunity in those two years to get an ID at their leisure. How would the universal ID work if people are still under such duress?
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Just have everybody show their EBT card to the registrar. Bingo! Problem solved by Obama.
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David
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How does the ID fix voter fraud? Do fake IDs not exist?
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Junior McSpiffy
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djhopscotch wrote:
How does the ID fix voter fraud? Do fake IDs not exist?


But then we have more to prosecute on and a way to actually track the fraud, as fraud would be about more than just voting. Right now, we have no real way to track and monitor voter fraud. If someone creates a fake ID, then there's a paper trail.
 
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Professor of Pain
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You'd need some way for the state to provide a free, easily accessible and consistent voter ID to every eligible voter. As soon as you have to pay for a birth certificate, ID, picture, transportation to get those items, etc. it is effectively a poll tax.

Or you could do vote by mail...
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David
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There literal isn't a paper trail for the ID, the ID is fake.

You have the same paper trail as a person voting under another person's name, a recorded vote.
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Chris Maloof

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Drew1365 wrote:
In 97% of the attempts, the DOI official was allowed to vote fraudulenty.

97 percent!

How did the NYC Board of Elections respond? They sought charges against the DOI for vote fraud!

Perfect!

If that's true, it is sort of clever. The deterrent against voter fraud -- the reason it doesn't happen in practice -- is indeed that the penalties for it (in a federal election, up to five years in prison and $10,000) are quite heavy compared to the negligible benefit of one vote. A

3 percent

chance of up to

five years in prison and $10,000!

for one measly vote has apparently been plenty to deter people.

The real danger of fraud, in my opinion, is voting machine software with no paper trail, which could manipulate votes on a much larger scale.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Elfbane wrote:
You'd need some way for the state to provide a free, easily accessible and consistent voter ID to every eligible voter. As soon as you have to pay for a birth certificate, ID, picture, transportation to get those items, etc. it is effectively a poll tax.

Or you could do vote by mail...
Is a poll tax not unconstitutional?
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Junior McSpiffy
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Elfbane wrote:
You'd need some way for the state to provide a free, easily accessible and consistent voter ID to every eligible voter. As soon as you have to pay for a birth certificate, ID, picture, transportation to get those items, etc. it is effectively a poll tax.

Or you could do vote by mail...


"Transportation?" How is transportation a burden? And if it's a poll tax in the form of getting the ID, then how it it not a poll tax in the act of getting to the place where you vote? Unless you are saying the only place to get a state ID is the state capital, I see transportation as a non-issue. If they can get to the poll or a grocery store, they can get to a DMV for a free ID.

As for a birth cert. or such, how would you suggest we have someone prove their identity without... anything?

Oh, as someone who has vote-by-mail and loves the convenience of vote-by-mail, I also acknowledge that this is easily the biggest opportunity for voter fraud and would happily sacrifice it if it helped bring some uniformity and order to the election process.
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Junior McSpiffy
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slatersteven wrote:
Elfbane wrote:
You'd need some way for the state to provide a free, easily accessible and consistent voter ID to every eligible voter. As soon as you have to pay for a birth certificate, ID, picture, transportation to get those items, etc. it is effectively a poll tax.

Or you could do vote by mail...
Is a poll tax not unconstitutional?


It is unconstitutional, but nobody is saying that paying a tax at the voting site will happen. The issue at hand here is the requirement of an ID may be considered a poll tax if that ID is required for voting.

It's also required to get most forms of employment, utilities, a library card....
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Lee Fisher
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GameCrossing wrote:
Elfbane wrote:
You'd need some way for the state to provide a free, easily accessible and consistent voter ID to every eligible voter. As soon as you have to pay for a birth certificate, ID, picture, transportation to get those items, etc. it is effectively a poll tax.

Or you could do vote by mail...


"Transportation?" How is transportation a burden? And if it's a poll tax in the form of getting the ID, then how it it not a poll tax in the act of getting to the place where you vote? Unless you are saying the only place to get a state ID is the state capital, I see transportation as a non-issue. If they can get to the poll or a grocery store, they can get to a DMV for a free ID.

As for a birth cert. or such, how would you suggest we have someone prove their identity without... anything?

Oh, as someone who has vote-by-mail and loves the convenience of vote-by-mail, I also acknowledge that this is easily the biggest opportunity for voter fraud and would happily sacrifice it if it helped bring some uniformity and order to the election process.


The DMV in PA is always farther than the poll and almost always farther than the grocery store.
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Boaty McBoatface
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GameCrossing wrote:
Elfbane wrote:
You'd need some way for the state to provide a free, easily accessible and consistent voter ID to every eligible voter. As soon as you have to pay for a birth certificate, ID, picture, transportation to get those items, etc. it is effectively a poll tax.

Or you could do vote by mail...


"Transportation?" How is transportation a burden? And if it's a poll tax in the form of getting the ID, then how it it not a poll tax in the act of getting to the place where you vote? Unless you are saying the only place to get a state ID is the state capital, I see transportation as a non-issue. If they can get to the poll or a grocery store, they can get to a DMV for a free ID.

As for a birth cert. or such, how would you suggest we have someone prove their identity without... anything?

Oh, as someone who has vote-by-mail and loves the convenience of vote-by-mail, I also acknowledge that this is easily the biggest opportunity for voter fraud and would happily sacrifice it if it helped bring some uniformity and order to the election process.
Are there as many DMV offices as grocery stores?
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Junior McSpiffy
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lfisher wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Elfbane wrote:
You'd need some way for the state to provide a free, easily accessible and consistent voter ID to every eligible voter. As soon as you have to pay for a birth certificate, ID, picture, transportation to get those items, etc. it is effectively a poll tax.

Or you could do vote by mail...


"Transportation?" How is transportation a burden? And if it's a poll tax in the form of getting the ID, then how it it not a poll tax in the act of getting to the place where you vote? Unless you are saying the only place to get a state ID is the state capital, I see transportation as a non-issue. If they can get to the poll or a grocery store, they can get to a DMV for a free ID.

As for a birth cert. or such, how would you suggest we have someone prove their identity without... anything?

Oh, as someone who has vote-by-mail and loves the convenience of vote-by-mail, I also acknowledge that this is easily the biggest opportunity for voter fraud and would happily sacrifice it if it helped bring some uniformity and order to the election process.


The DMV in PA is always farther than the poll and almost always farther than the grocery store.


Well, that's it. Just throw up our hands. DMV is an extra couple of miles, so people who get rides to the doctor's office, to go grocery shopping, to apply for benefits, to do anything... can't find a way to make one trip within two years to a DMV. Integrity-be-damned.
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Boaty McBoatface
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GameCrossing wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Elfbane wrote:
You'd need some way for the state to provide a free, easily accessible and consistent voter ID to every eligible voter. As soon as you have to pay for a birth certificate, ID, picture, transportation to get those items, etc. it is effectively a poll tax.

Or you could do vote by mail...
Is a poll tax not unconstitutional?


It is unconstitutional, but nobody is saying that paying a tax at the voting site will happen. The issue at hand here is the requirement of an ID may be considered a poll tax if that ID is required for voting.

It's also required to get most forms of employment, utilities, a library card....
Your kidding me? I have never had to pay for a library card (or to get a job). I cannot even imagine the kind of county where you pay to use a library. As to utilities, they are provided by private companies, they do it for the money.
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Boaty McBoatface
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GameCrossing wrote:
lfisher wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Elfbane wrote:
You'd need some way for the state to provide a free, easily accessible and consistent voter ID to every eligible voter. As soon as you have to pay for a birth certificate, ID, picture, transportation to get those items, etc. it is effectively a poll tax.

Or you could do vote by mail...


"Transportation?" How is transportation a burden? And if it's a poll tax in the form of getting the ID, then how it it not a poll tax in the act of getting to the place where you vote? Unless you are saying the only place to get a state ID is the state capital, I see transportation as a non-issue. If they can get to the poll or a grocery store, they can get to a DMV for a free ID.

As for a birth cert. or such, how would you suggest we have someone prove their identity without... anything?

Oh, as someone who has vote-by-mail and loves the convenience of vote-by-mail, I also acknowledge that this is easily the biggest opportunity for voter fraud and would happily sacrifice it if it helped bring some uniformity and order to the election process.


The DMV in PA is always farther than the poll and almost always farther than the grocery store.


Well, that's it. Just throw up our hands. DMV is an extra couple of miles, so people who get rides to the doctor's office, to go grocery shopping, to apply for benefits, to do anything... can't find a way to make one trip within two years to a DMV. Integrity-be-damned.
Most (if not all) people are within walking distance of a grocery store. Most may (if they are lucky) be within half a hours drive of a DMV center. Hell my local poling station is within a few minutes walk.
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