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Pathfinder Adventure Card Game: Skull & Shackles – Base Set» Forums » General

Subject: Compatibility with Runelords character advancement? rss

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Richard Ham
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Anyone know whether we'll be able to continue leveling up our characters from RotR with this new set? I would assume that must be the case, and would be hugely saddened if it wasn't...
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Tim Bueschel
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Re: Compatability with Runelords character advacmenet?
From what I am reading these will be new characters going on a new adventure. So even though they will have the same names their powers will be different.
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Richard Ham
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Re: Compatability with Runelords character advacmenet?
So it is true that we'll have to start over with new characters then? I appreciate that there are new characters that come with the game, and that's fine, but that doesn't preclude the option to continue leveling our old characters...
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Kurt Van Hoeyveld
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Re: Compatibility with Runelords character advantage?
Hmmz, I would also prefer a complete new adventure but with the old leveled up characters instead of starting something completely new :-/
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neuro researcher
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Re: Compatibility with Runelords character advantage?
You'd be way overpowered in the new adventure path if you used an old character. There are plenty of rumors though that they will release a high level adventure at some point, however, to continue your completed campaigns.
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Richard Ham
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Re: Compatibility with Runelords character advantage?
neuroblast89 wrote:
You'd be way overpowered in the new adventure path if you used an old character. There are plenty of rumors though that they will release a high level adventure at some point, however, to continue your completed campaigns.


There doesn't need to be any overpowered issue, because the new pack could come with enemies/items/scenarios that are appropriately tough for a high level character who's made it through Runelords, and the new characters who come with the new set could have been set to be equivalent of those high level characters.

So there's no real reason that this new set requires throwing away your character and starting over that I can see.

So is that known for a fact though that this is the path they've chosen?
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Richard Ham
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Re: Compatibility with Runelords character advantage?
AspenFan34 wrote:
Not a big fan of that, as I would love nothing more than to keep getting packs that level up with my character and not stop at number 6. :/


Tell me about it. If this is in fact the way Paizo is going to go, then I'm probably going to jump off now and walk away. Why put all that time and love into a character who has a finite shelf life?

Very disappointed - hugely disappointed actually. So far everyone seems to be guessing/assuming this is the way it's going to go, so I will keep my fingers crossed, but I've now got a very bad feeling about this
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neuro researcher
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Re: Compatibility with Runelords character advantage?
This has been published on their websites and in press several times. It will be a new base set, for new characters (although you can use your current characters in the new set if you start them over). They will be moving up to a monthly release schedule with the new adventure path in August, with a new adventure path every 6 months. This is how the adventure pats for the real RPG work as well, with a new adventure path every 6 months for new, basic characters. Think of each adventure path (base set and expansions) as a standalone story. Paizo also has made some higher level content for after you complete a base adventure in the RPG, and they have hinted that they will do higher level adventures for the card gamedown the road and have clearly said that they are open to it, but they haven't started designing them yet. The base sets are compatible, but not sequels to one another. Personally I'm okay with this. Personally I am fine with how they are doing things, especially knowing that they will likely release higher level content down the line.
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Richard Ham
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Re: Compatibility with Runelords character advantage?
Cool, thanks for the info everybody!

Ah well, Pathfinder, it was nice while it lasted!
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Andrew Warner
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Re: Compatibility with Runelords character advantage?
You can take the same character cards (i.e. no no skill, power, or card feats) and use them in Skull and Shackles, but it isn't intended to be a continuation of your leveled characters.

Here is a post from Paizo about Skull and Shackles.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qeka?Saving-Power-Feats-for-you...

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lfjc&page=2?Shiver-Me-T...

I'm sure if there is a big enough demand they would seriously consider an extension of RoR. But you need to remember, its supposed to be one continuous story, so eventually the story has to end.

I think a lot of the fun in this game is all the different characters. Skull and Shackles has 7 brand new characters and 4 returning, but changed characters. The 4 returns will probably have some of their skills mixed up a bit, slightly different powers, and probably will have completely different role cards.

I'm personally looking forward to both playing Skull and Shackles and then also taking some of those characters and running them through Rise of the Runelords and vice versa.
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Richard Ham
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Re: Compatibility with Runelords character advantage?
Thanks for the definitive post, Hawk! And with that, Pathfinder is officially dead to me. Such an epic blunder, IMO (feel free to disagree ). There's simply no reason for them not to have had their cake and eaten it too, by designing Shackles to be higher level adventures and including higher level characters with it.

I was so excited about the notion of playing Jen's and my chosen characters for years, like one does in an MMO or a traditional pen & paper game, but I guess that was never the developer's intent, which is really a crying shame. At least I found out now, before I invested a lot more money into what is ultimately a dead end character.
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Jer Wolfe
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Re: Compatibility with Runelords character advantage?
Richard,

A pen and paper RPG could never be in card form, that is the essence of pen and paper, playing your character from 1-20.
(Unless you use Epic rules, but that is another story) And that is also what killed it for me, but earlier than you realized it.
I just knew it could never be. Nice try though.
Your move on Euphoria, btw
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Trystan
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Re: Compatibility with Runelords character advantage?
To be fair in Pathfinder RPG terms by the time the characters are done with Rise of the Runelords (or any of the adventure paths) they are level 15+, they're killing dragons and demons with impunity and set to save the world from demi-gods and all that sort of thing that peopel do at the end of epic stories. In short there really isn't that much further that they can go.

As such I think it's a good idea to have those characters enjoy their epilogue and retire, they've earned it. Then the next story begins with fresh faced fools again.

If you want there's nothing stopping you using the same characters anyway, maybe in this alternative story you'll develop Valeros the same way or maybe you'll try the other specialisation to experiment a bit, it's up to you.
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Richard Ham
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Re: Compatibility with Runelords character advantage?
To each their own. IMO they could have easily continued to raise the bar in terms of in-game challenge balance without having to resort to fighting Zeus on a regular basis. MMOs prove this quite handily. But that's not how they want to roll, that's fine. I'll just spend my money elsewhere.
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steven riola

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Re: Compatibility with Runelords character advantage?
I get the disappointment, but in my eyes it's like saying I'm not going to play Fable II OR Diablo III because all of the work I put in during the previous games doesn't translate over to the new game.

If I continued the Ratchet and Clank series on PS3 with all of the weapons and upgrades from the first 5 games it'd have to be incredibly hard, not to mention you're cutting out a huge segment of people who may have not played the first game.
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Richard Ham
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Re: Compatibility with Runelords character advantage?
Hmm, I'm not sure why you'd have to cut out a segment of people who may not have played. If S&S came with enemies, traps & items worthy of characters who had finished RoR, and it also came with new characters who were at the same basic level as characters that had finished RoR, then everything works. It's just simple numbers and a bit of imagination coming up with new greater threats and whatnot. Not rocket science...

BTW, if I had stayed at Lionhead to work on Fable 3, you can bet I would have included way to link the two games and get continuity between your characters. My original pitch for F3 was that you started as the child of a great and mighty elder hero, who dies as your adventure begins. The level-up system is tied to items & abilities that your parent bequeathed to you "when you were ready" as as the game went on, you got more and more cool powerful stuff as part of your inheritance. And at the beginning of the game, if we read a Fable 2 save on your system, then of course, your F2 character would have been your parent in F3, and your F2 loot would have comprised a lot of the stuff you inherited. It would have been awesome!

Coincidentally, my pitch also focused on piracy and life at sea and expanding the gameworld beyond Albion (heading to Samarkand and whatnot), much like S&S seems to

Ah well, no reason to cry over what could have been (either Fable 3, or me and Jen playing Harsk & Lini 5 years from now as the equivalent of lvl50 WoW characters)...
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Matthew Collier
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Re: Compatibility with Runelords character advantage?
What about some form of varient that lets you pass some sort of benefit or item from your current character to your new S&S character? Kinda like your new character is a child or grandchild of your current character. ^^
 
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Andrew Warner
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Re: Compatibility with Runelords character advantage?
While I am excited about Skull and Shackles (disclaimer: I'm in the play test for it), I can sympathize with you about loving your character and wanting to continue their story. So I do hope they eventually release a high level game that you can use to continue Rise of the Runelords.

I'd also agree though that it can't go on forever. If you kept gaining power feats you'd eventually have too many powers to keep track of.

One thing you could do would be to transfer a character from Rise of the Runelords to Skull and Shackles. A "just finished deck 3 Valeros" should transplant ok to pick up with deck 4 in Skull and Shackles. You'd have to swap out his cards, but there will probably end up being lots of similar cards. So swap this sword for that sword, this armor for that armor.

I know its not exactly what you want, but its something to consider.
 
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Richard Ham
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Re: Compatibility with Runelords character advantage?
269Hawkmoon wrote:
I'd also agree though that it can't go on forever. If you kept gaining power feats you'd eventually have too many powers to keep track of.


Easily solved. You introduce new 'character expansion' cards (not sure what they're called) that replace your existing ones. I.e. when Harsk gets to some super high level, and he's in danger of becoming too unwieldy to play, have the next big target be an upgrade character archetype. Say I'd been playing with him as a 'tracker', and I get to the point where it's time to move on past the tracker card, and upgrade to the new hunter/stalker card. When making the switch, I can choose to bring over a certain number of my existing powers from tracker, so there's some continuity, but some of them won't be options on the new card, because they've been replaced with bigger and better stuff that I have to earn.

Or just release an updated tracker/sniper card that doesn't introduce any new powers, but simply lets me continue to improve the ones I've got stats style (more +X, more cards in deck, etc.)

So you can slow down or eliminate 'over complexity creep' easily enough, and let me continue to grow my character making interesting choices along the way.

At least, that's how it seems to me. It clearly could have been done, but it was decided not to do it, I guess for continuity with the main Pathfinder system? Ah well, whatev's.
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Re: Compatibility with Runelords character advantage?
Sounds like the experience you are after is more MMO than board game to be honest. Every good board game should have a conclusion, after all. Same goes for good pen and paper roleplay, eventually your character needs to be retired. I've yet to run into something like you're describing outside the MMO space at all really.

If that's the itch your scratching I can recommend final fantasy 14 personally, though I hear great things are happening in the free to play space too.
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Richard Ham
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Re: Compatibility with Runelords character advantage?
Proto Persona wrote:
Sounds like the experience you are after is more MMO than board game to be honest.

Funny you should mention that. In the runthrough video I did for Pathfinder, I talked about how I felt that it didn't capture the feeling of a traditional pen & paper RPG as is so often claimed... it instead captured the feel of an MMO, and did it quite well. Turns out I was wrong though, and it doesn't, because MMOs don't have to go up to level 10 and then restart in a new zone...

Quote:
If that's the itch your scratching I can recommend final fantasy 14 personally, though I hear great things are happening in the free to play space too.

Problem is board games have killed videogames for me.
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Re: Compatibility with Runelords character advantage?
rahdo wrote:
Problem is board games have killed videogames for me.

I know what you mean, Richard. Having been into the designer board game scene for nearly 5 years now, video games just don't hold any interest for me anymore. When I've tried to play video games recently it just felt like I picked up a controller, stared at a screen, and pushed buttons... They don't even feel like "games" to me anymore. And I am totally cool with that. cool

Besides, I already spend more than enough time staring at a screen while I browse BGG. I play games to get away from this damn thing.
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Re: Compatibility with Runelords character advantage?
rahdo wrote:
Problem is board games have killed videogames for me.


I can certainly appreciate that point! ^^

----

I'm ok with them doing a fresh base set next year, but I do think they should introduce further adventures for higher levels. They don't even need to be for particular adventure paths, they could just release standalone adventures and market them as 'advanced' or something to let people know they should have a character that has finished a core set.

That way you're catering to everyone that finishes any base set, and still releasing new content to introduce new players.
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Kurt Van Hoeyveld
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Re: Compatibility with Runelords character advantage?
rahdo wrote:

Problem is board games have killed videogames for me.


This is happening to me too whistle My PS4 is getting quite angy with me.

On topic: I guess I'll learn to live with the knowledge the story of my character is not one without ending (sadly), and I'll probably play it until the end (but forego the new one too).

This news saddens me too
 
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Martin Larouche
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Re: Compatibility with Runelords character advantage?
This is a d&d / pathfinder game. There's a limit to what you can acquire to keep the game fresh. It's not just about the leveling, it's also about the loot.

When the 6th pack to RotR is released, we'll have our +5 longswords of Dragon slaying... If you want your character to keep finding more great equipment, you'd need to seriously slow down meaningful loot acquisition to the point where the game becomes dull. Why can't i only find a mediocre +1 longbow in the entire adventure packs set? We have to play 15 games just before ONE character in the party can find something interesting... All loot we get is trash...
Well it's becausue we can't go fast if you want to keep playing the same character for years...
Yeah... game is boring. A loot based game with almost no good loot.

Or, well i can summon a meteor now. And the warrior can kill 3 dragons before breakfast... What's next?
You'll get a +10 sword...
Why do i need to throw the dice? I've got an automatic kill 99% of the times... the dice only change 10% variations in the results. It's all automatic plusses... If you throw 1d10 + 100... the d10 kinda become dumb...

The Pathfinder card game follows the story and level progression of the main Pathfinder rpg's campaigns. They end when you get to it's end. Drag this more and the game would be boring and not worth playing, however the designers do it.

MMOs fall under the same problem. At one point, you reach the level cap and get the best loot the game has to offer. Only thing left is to start over.

These games are all based on a solid linear progression of character abilities and loot. You can't mess with that progression to make the game shorter or longer as it would make the game boring. I find most MMOs boring because the progression is way to slow. Having to play for 10 hours just to get a new sword that's 1% better than the one i had... no thanks...

I'd rather start fresh with a new character and explore parts of those games i never used.
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