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Police Precinct» Forums » General

Subject: Plastic Insert... YES or NO... What say Ye! rss

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Common Man Games
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We are working on the 2nd Edition of Police Precinct now, and are trying to make the best choices about where to put our focus.

What matters?

How can we make Police Precinct the best it can be without driving the MSRP up.

One area we felt could really use some improvement was in the area of storage of components.

We recently listed it as a Stretch Goal on our current campaign, and here is how we described it...

"We here at CMG know that the storage solution offered in the 1st Edition was not the greatest, and how nice it would be to have a plastic insert.

Doing this is an expensive prospect and could also result in the need for a bigger box, which would further add to costs, but now YOU (the backers) can now help make this possible."


We know that many would welcome this and appreciate it, but...

Is it ultimately worth the cost?

and/thus...

Is this where we should be putting our focus (resources/assets)?

This thread is all about exploring this topic.

Please join in...



Karl
 
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Common Man Games
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What prompted this thread?

Well...

It was what a single individual said.

We felt like he said it well, and made some excellent points, and felt like it was worthy of further discussion.

Here's what he said...

"FWIW, please DON'T waste valuable money on an insert!

What, huh, why?

They rarely ever work and end up in the trash.

What, huh, why?

1. Expansions - Like most, I want to keep my expansions in the base box. A custom fit insert tends to no longer work once expansions come out.

2. Sleeves - It's almost impossible to design an insert that accommodates folks who sleeve and folks who don't so you end up having to pick a team and frustrate the other team.

In summary, please save the money for future development.

Seriously, I'd rather keep your profit margins as high as possible so the money goes into development and improving the components as you are.

FWIW: I even chuck Days of Wonders inserts.

I bag my components, bag the expansions, and chuck them all in a single box. I use to think why does Fantasy Flight produce such crappy inserts and then I realized it's because they know they will expand the game and they know some will sleeve. I know appreciate that they save the money and reduce the waste."
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Common Man Games
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We look forward to hearing any and all thoughts on this topic.

Thanks in advance to all who contribute.

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Common Man Games
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Wait...

One final thought, which is...

We are considering releasing a BIG BOX EXPANSION, which could house all sorts of expansions.

Thus, a serious fan might carry around Police Precinct, AND "Season Two"

Which could be a box that is just as big, if not bigger, than the base game.

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Rob Rob
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Just my $0.02 but I like the way they handled it with Flash Point: Fire Rescue and Sentinels of the Multiverse, the expansion boxes were intentionally over-sized to accommodate the promos, expansions and things which wouldn't fit in the core box or in an box sized just big enough for the expansion alone.
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Duane Crago
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Sentinels did do it well, though my box is now crammed with all the current expansions out and the cards being sleeved. But, they did plan ahead for some growth.

An insert may or may not be a bad thing depending on that aspect. If you can think a bit ahead of where things may be heading and accommodate that in your box and/or insert design that would definitely make some happy players. I know I try to avoid having to carry around multiple boxes if possible as I'm the one that drags my games to places to play

If you don't make the box larger for that aspect or arrange for the insert to accommodate for the expansion aspect then the likelihood of the insert getting tossed at some point is pretty high in my case.
 
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David Briel
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Spend the money on the game components, not the insert.
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Brian
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Common Man Games wrote:
We look forward to hearing any and all thoughts on this topic.

Thanks in advance to all who contribute.


You're dead on with reasons #1 and #2.

IMO, it isn't worth the added cost.

Just include a few baggies so people can bag the chits, dice, and cards.
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Mike Malley
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Frankly, I'd rather you include baggies and rubber bands like Euphoria did. An ace insert is ace, but the odds are against it.
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Cindy Nowak
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I agree - with all of the possibilities with this game - sleeved cards, expansions, pimping out the game with Hot Wheels and such, an insert doesn't really make much sense. What you have right now certainly accommodates the base game quite well, including the aforementioned sleeves and cars.



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Wil
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Thanks for starting this thread!

The above replies cover all of the points I was going to share so I'll be brief and simply share my support of NO plastic insert. We're going to outgrow it from pimping our games, sleeving our cards, picking up the next expansion, etc.

Save the money for continued game development and everything else you recently mentioned in the latest Kickstarter post such as thicker components and "Naked Guy"s.

My hunch is that a plastic insert will also extend the production cycle and push the delivery out further as well.

Go cardboard all the way!
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Dave
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Add me to the spend-your-time-and-money-on-the-game-itself camp. An over-sized box for an expansion would certainly be welcome though.
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Things I wish manufacturers would do:

Keep to "standard" size boxes (The Ticket to Ride box size is perfect).

Include tuck boxes for cards. I don't know why no one does this. Maybe it's the sleeve or no sleeve conundrum, but I for one would really appreciate this. I buy Ultra-Pro two piece card boxes for all my games (I hate how bags clutter things up). If there were included tuck boxes it would save me some dough.


Generally, I pitch inserts and go with Plano boxes. You won't be able to please everyone. I would go with an insert that is sufficient to keep the contents of the game safe during shipping like FFG does.

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Quintious .
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I like plastic inserts, but if someone told me my game would cost $10 more because of it, I'd scoff. For games I enjoy (PP included), I Plano box the contents, anyways.

The most important thing for me w/ games that have expansions is the ability to put all of the contents in one game box. I absolutely hate having to have 2-6 boxes for a game.
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David Knepper
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+1 for a usable plastic insert. whistle

There are what, nearly 600 backers, so I hardly think you have a sample, in this thread, from which you can draw reliable conclusions.
 
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Adam Fortney
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No insert needed! I had no problem fitting my banded cards and baggies-o'-components in the first edition box. If you have other things that need your attention, this should be at the bottom of the list.
 
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The Compulsive Completist
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Like most of my games, your plastic insert will be in the trash soon after arrival.

So scrap the insert and...
1. Reduce the price of the game.
2. Give us a little something else for our money.
3. Make a bigger profit. I'm buying either way.
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Kevin Erskine
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I'm definitely in the don't waste money on the insert. If you want, I can send you a large box of them that I no longer use.
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Thomas Dunagan
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As a first edition backer, I would have no interest in an insert, but more so a much deeper box. Maybe an expansion down the road could include a box?
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Thomas Dunagan
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Common Man Games wrote:
Wait...

One final thought, which is...

We are considering releasing a BIG BOX EXPANSION, which could house all sorts of expansions.

Thus, a serious fan might carry around Police Precinct, AND "Season Two"

Which could be a box that is just as big, if not bigger, than the base game.



Oh, I missed this post

DEFINITELY YES
 
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Cristian van Loenen
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I completely agree with NO INSERT. Reasons already mentioned:
- I Like to put all expansions in the main box
- I like to pimp this game (cars, etc)
- I sleeve the cards
- I like to add a component box for all tokens
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Martin Gregory
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No insert.

 
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Insert 0 : 1 Bigger box
 
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Common Man Games
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Hey everyone!!!

Yesterday was such a crazy day for me personally that I have not had a chance to even read everyone's posts yet.



(I played in two hockey games, and watched my Broncos beat those Pesky Pats!)

But...

I just wanted to throw out a quick idea off the top of my head...

Maybe we could reverse the order of the two Stretch Goals currently listed.

This would mean that Naked Dude would be pretty much a guaranteed thing, and...

It would buy us a little more time to debate this topic and possibly make adjustments if that seemed like a good idea for all.

Thoughts?

PS - I do think that a poll could help determine how people feel about some of this stuff in a more democratic/statistical way, so that might be coming soon (maybe later today).
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The Compulsive Completist
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Common Man Games wrote:
Hey everyone!!!

Yesterday was such a crazy day for me personally that I have not had a chance to even read everyone's posts yet.



(I played in two hockey games, and watched my Broncos beat those Pesky Pats!)

But...

I just wanted to throw out a quick idea off the top of my head...

Maybe we could reverse the order of the two Stretch Goals currently listed.

This would mean that Naked Dude would be pretty much a guaranteed thing, and...

It would buy us a little more time to debate this topic and possibly make adjustments if that seemed like a good idea for all.

Thoughts?

PS - I do think that a poll could help determine how people feel about some of this stuff in a more democratic/statistical way, so that might be coming soon (maybe later today).

Yes
 
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