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Combat Commander: Europe» Forums » Rules

Subject: fence ,targeting and hindrancequestion rss

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Mark Caskey
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On my first game of CCE we were a little confused when firing through a fence.

The terrain chart entry for a Fence hexside is 1/0.

In the LOS column explanation at the bottom of the terrain chart it states the hindrance "reduces the Targeting roll/FP of same level fire attacks".

So our interpretation of this was that for ordnance targeting roll the effect on the targeting die roll is minus one,but for the FP roll there is no modifier.

 
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Russ Williams
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mcaskey11925 wrote:
So our interpretation of this was that for ordnance targeting roll the effect on the targeting die roll is minus one,


Right, since
O20.2.3 Targeting Roll wrote:
Targeting & Hindrances—Targeting Rolls are always modified by any relevant Hindrance along the way [10.3.1].


Quote:
but for the FP roll there is no modifier.


Right, since
O20.3.2 Attack Hindrances wrote:
If the LOS from any non-Ordnance firing piece and the target hex is hindered [10.3], that shot’s FP is reduced by the largest such Hindrance.


(Note that "non-Ordnance" is blue text in the version 1.1 PDF, meaning it was a rule change from the first edition.)

and 10.3.1 also states it explicitly. ("If the Radio/Weapon hits, any subsequent Artillery Impact/Fire Attack Roll will be unaffected by the Hindrance.")
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Mark Caskey
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Thanks!
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Jason Albert
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I don’t have the terrain sheet in front of me, but I believe the 1/0 in the LOS column refers to whether the fence is a hexside of either the firer or the target. If it’s a hexside in either case, no hindrance.
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Richard Pardoe
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AlbertaClipper wrote:
I believe the 1/0 in the LOS column refers to whether the fence is a hexside of either the firer or the target. If it’s a hexside in either case, no hindrance.

Correct. The Terrain Chart explains this with the ** note for that entry on the chart.
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Mark Caskey
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The ** note and the 1/O value refer to two different but relayed points in my understanding.

The ** note does what folk have stated and affects units adjacent to a hexside.ie Fence has no effect on targeting roll

The question I had was on the 1/0 value , which has been answered....only affects targeting roll; the ** note if applicable cancels the targeting die roll deduction.

I think I have it now.
 
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Richard Pardoe
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mcaskey11925 wrote:
The question I had was on the 1/0 value , which has been answered....only affects targeting roll.

If you are ONLY talking about ordnance that is correct. The 1/0 value affects the FP for non-ordnance.



I think you have it, but to make sure. In your original post, you state:

mcaskey11925 wrote:
In the LOS column explanation at the bottom of the terrain chart it states the hindrance "reduces the Targeting roll/FP of same level fire attacks".

So our interpretation of this was that for ordnance targeting roll the effect on the targeting die roll is minus one,but for the FP roll there is no modifier.

Which sounds like you thought that the 1/0 was how a fence affected a Targeting Roll (1) and the FP (0) which is not correct.

The 1 is the hindrance which affects the targeting roll for Ordnance and the FP for non-ordance.

However, should the fence be a hexside for the firing or target hex, then the fence has hindrance 0 and that is the affect on the targeting roll for Ordnance and the FP for non-ordance.
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Mark Caskey
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The ** note is totally clear to me.

For the situation where target and shooter are not adjacent to a fence hexside I am not so sure anymore.

For the 1\0 I was matching these deductions to the text Targeting Roll/FP.
I.E. Targeting Roll" maps to a deduction of "1" and "FP" maps to a deduction of "0".

Sounds like this is not the case?



 
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Richard Pardoe
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mcaskey11925 wrote:
For the 1\0 I was matching these deductions to the text Targeting Roll/FP.
I.E. Targeting Roll" maps to a deduction of "1" and "FP" maps to a deduction of "0".

Sounds like this is not the case?

That is NOT the case.

If you will bear with me, perhaps it will be instructive to add WALLS to our discussion.

If a LOS between firing hex and target hex crosses a wall, the LOS is blocked (no shot possible). That is indicated by the circle with a slash in it. However, if the wall is on the hexside of either the firing hex or the target hex, the LOS is NOT blocked. That is indicated by the 0 which is explained by the ** note (which applies to the 0 only).

In the case of a fence, the fence doesn't block the shot at all. Instead it adds a hindrance (=1). Hindrance affects the FP of a non-ordance attack by reducing the FP by the amount of Hindrance. For Ordnance weapons, Hindrance affects the targeting roll only. In other words, hindrance makes it harder "to hit" the hex via the targeting roll, but if a hit is achieved, it is at "full FP" as it were.

Again, the 0** indicates that the fence has NO hindrance if it is along the hexside of either the firing hex or the target hex.

I don't know if that helps any, but will be happy to answer any questions to help remove your confusion.
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Mark Caskey
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Thanks for the clarification. Now I have it!
 
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