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Subject: Convince me to like this game rss

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Bryan F
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I've played this game about 8 to 10 times now (possibly more, possibly less. you can tell how much i've enjoyed it so far by my inability to keep track of how many times i've played). I don't own it myself, but my cousin does and he's bought some packs or expansions for it, but I couldn't tell you which ones. For the sake of argument, let's just say I've played with the base set.

Why is this game good? Why would I choose it over other LCGs like Netrunner or LoTR (I've played both), or even the old Decipher SW CCG?

Personally, I've found this game to be, number one, just not fun to play. Even though I've played many CCGs and LCGs, it feels like this one has many rules designed to frustrate me. I have yet to win a game, and in fact, I've rage quit (not really rage, just frustrated) at least half of the times I've played with my cuz. He likes the game himself (he's also a massive SW nut, I am just a regular sized SW nut), but admits that it's definitely not as good as it can be.

What am I missing here? Do I dislike this game because I'm not familiar enough with the cards to effectively build a deck? Should I hunt down a decent decklist and try playing with that? Also know that I am very experienced with table top gaming and card games and have played and enjoyed games that are both more complex and less complex.

I'm also of the opinion that the game itself is wildly erratic. It makes sense in a way, because it feels like you're supposed to feel like you're on the brink of defeat and then pull out some crazy card or manoeuvre to turn the tides, but so far I've found that aspect either simply disheartening or frustrating, and both emotions dissuade me from wanting to continue the game. I've also felt that the game suffers too much from runaway leader syndrome, as well.

Game mechanics-wise, it feels decidedly average. I'm also not a huge fan of games that constantly make you choose between saving your cards to use (i.e. play on the table) or to burn through for something like the fate battles. Don't even get me started on those fate battles. So far they are the dumbest thing about the game, imo.

I totally admit that I haven't given this game a good, long, in depth try. On the other hand, generally when I like a game I know within the first two or three plays. What in the heck am I missing? Maybe I'm not missing anything and it's just an average game that I don't really like.
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Brandon
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If 8-10 plays hasn't hooked you, then you just don't like it. I don't think anyone needs to convince you otherwise.

There's a database of 68,000+ games here to like. I don't think you have to like every one.
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Mike
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I've learned long ago that if you loose at a game, over and over, your not going to like said game.

Comparing it to Netrunner, your always going to find more Netrunner players then sw lcg players, its just more popular. As for LoTR, well I mean its co-op... Decipher? No comment there... lol

In my personal opinion this game requires more practice then most to be good at. There is a lot going on.

Erratic? I got a buddy that quit this game because he hated the "swing"... The game can really swing wildly at a moments notice. Some player just don't like that.

But in all honesty, the game really is fun, and that's especially the case if you enjoy the sw universe.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Assuming you're playing all the rules correctly, is it just one core set? The game play can be rather random if you're not doubling up on Objective Sets.

For me, I really like Star Wars as it does a lot to clean up what I don't like about CCGs/LCGs:

- Every Card Matters: Due to Edge Battles, you never have that 'wasted' card. Even if the card has no real use this turn, you can always play it in an Edge Battle.

- No more "I'll never put that card in my deck." Due to how Objective Sets work, deck building is great and you never have those oddball cards that you would just never include. Now, there might be a Set you wouldn't include, but so far I haven't found one.

- Drawing multiple cards per turn: I don't like the overall randomness of card games, but since you're filling your hand every turn to 6 (or whatever your current reserve value is) as opposed to just drawing one card per turn, it rarely feels like you're stuck with the luck of the draw.

- Asymmetrical goals: I like that Light Side and Dark Side have different goals, which therefore prescribe different styles of play.

- Fits Theme surprisingly well: The Edge Battles, the Force Struggle, the Death Star Dial, all the mechanics and cards fit the theme really, really well. I love how you tend to hold a unit like Yoda back from fights so he can be used in the Force Struggles. How Vader feels like Vader. How Luke can be a bad ass given enough time. How Boba Fett captures units, etc. And the artwork is gorgeous! Another great fit for the theme.

A combination of many factors goes in to making this game stand above the rest, but if you don't like the Edge Battles, then I doubt you'll ever like this game. Edge combined with Fill Hand combined with Objective Sets makes this far different from all other LCGs out there, and it's its main strength.

-shnar
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Steve
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This is my favorite game. My second favorite is Netrunner which I've played more seriously (won a few tournaments). A few things...

Zom B wrote:
I'm also of the opinion that the game itself is wildly erratic

This one gets newcomers a lot. It feels like you should deploy all the units you can and dump all your cards into edge battles. You shouldn't. Choosing when to try to win edge battles is a big part of this game. Correctly giving one up to save a Twist or a Palpatine for a key battle later in the game is very satisfying. However, you said you don't like making those kinds of decisions so you probably wouldn't enjoy it.

Zom B wrote:
I'm also not a huge fan of games that constantly make you choose between saving your cards to use (i.e. play on the table) or to burn through for something like the fate battles. Don't even get me started on those fate battles. So far they are the dumbest thing about the game, imo.

Another common newcomers' complaint. They do feel pretty random at first. They don't feel random to me anymore and I'm not great at this game. Just about every edge battle involves bluffing which I like a lot.

Zom B wrote:
I've also felt that the game suffers too much from runaway leader syndrome, as well.

Not at all. I see far more comeback wins in this game than I do in most.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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stevepop wrote:
Zom B wrote:
I've also felt that the game suffers too much from runaway leader syndrome, as well.

Not at all. I see far more comeback wins in this game than I do in most.

Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen a "runaway leader syndrome" (except maybe in the 4 player challenge decks). Since you're practically drawing a new hand every turn, the player in behind has a good chance of getting that right combination of cards that will swing him into the lead, if not the game.

-shnar
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Dundy O
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shnar wrote:
Assuming you're playing all the rules correctly, is it just one core set? The game play can be rather random if you're not doubling up on Objective Sets.

For me, I really like Star Wars as it does a lot to clean up what I don't like about CCGs/LCGs:

- Every Card Matters: Due to Edge Battles, you never have that 'wasted' card. Even if the card has no real use this turn, you can always play it in an Edge Battle.

- No more "I'll never put that card in my deck." Due to how Objective Sets work, deck building is great and you never have those oddball cards that you would just never include. Now, there might be a Set you wouldn't include, but so far I haven't found one.

- Drawing multiple cards per turn: I don't like the overall randomness of card games, but since you're filling your hand every turn to 6 (or whatever your current reserve value is) as opposed to just drawing one card per turn, it rarely feels like you're stuck with the luck of the draw.

- Asymmetrical goals: I like that Light Side and Dark Side have different goals, which therefore prescribe different styles of play.

- Fits Theme surprisingly well: The Edge Battles, the Force Struggle, the Death Star Dial, all the mechanics and cards fit the theme really, really well. I love how you tend to hold a unit like Yoda back from fights so he can be used in the Force Struggles. How Vader feels like Vader. How Luke can be a bad ass given enough time. How Boba Fett captures units, etc. And the artwork is gorgeous! Another great fit for the theme.

A combination of many factors goes in to making this game stand above the rest, but if you don't like the Edge Battles, then I doubt you'll ever like this game. Edge combined with Fill Hand combined with Objective Sets makes this far different from all other LCGs out there, and it's its main strength.

-shnar


Oh, man. This is such an excellent post! Shnar hits on all the elements of why I like this game and why it's so different from other ccg/lcgs except the last point he listed. I'm not a big Star Wars fan at all, yet I enjoy this game.

Think about it--card games are always random because of the draw. It's one reason many gamers don't enjoy them. If you are in a tense match with an lcg and you built an awesome deck, you may never see cards you absolutely need because of card draw. In Star Wars, that possibility is minimalized because of your ability to control how quickly you go through your deck.

As shnar pointed out, if you hate the edge battles, walk away from this game. Fans of Star Wars understand and love the edge battle aspect of the game. It's where you can bluff, empty your hand of unwanted cards, or win your game. It's that important.

Lord of the Rings is my favorite lcg (by a wide margin) because it's the best card game in the world, but Star Wars is my second favorite. It brings a fresh approach to ccg/lcgs.
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Mark Papenfuss
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Neverfade wrote:
If 8-10 plays hasn't hooked you, then you just don't like it. I don't think anyone needs to convince you otherwise.

There's a database of 68,000+ games here to like. I don't think you have to like every one.


This.

I think 8-10 plays is plenty enough to show you what this game is about and that it isn't for you. For example, if you do not like the edge battles and consider it the "dumbest thing about the game" then even with two cores reducing the 'randomness,' I don't think you'll ever enjoy this game. So save your money and time and play something else.

But I must ask, why are you even asking to be convinced to play this game? Are you a Star Wars fan?
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Bryan F
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mpappy wrote:
But I must ask, why are you even asking to be convinced to play this game? Are you a Star Wars fan?


As I said, my cousin really likes it and owns it. We are planning to hang out tomorrow because he's ditching work and it's my day off, and he already suggested we play. I figure if he likes it, I should too, as we have a massive amount of common interests.
 
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Bryan F
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shnar wrote:
Assuming you're playing all the rules correctly, is it just one core set? The game play can be rather random if you're not doubling up on Objective Sets.


No, as I said, my cousin has purchased some of the extra card packs/expansions, but I don't know which ones off the top of my head.

shnar wrote:
- Every Card Matters: Due to Edge Battles, you never have that 'wasted' card. Even if the card has no real use this turn, you can always play it in an Edge Battle.


Ok, that makes sense. I guess I have to readjust my thinking about cards for this game. But given this aspect, you have to decide whether or not a card has either lost it's usefulness for a particular match, or weigh whether or not it has future use. If as you say there's no more "I'll never put that card in my deck." it seems like there's either rubbish cards built right in that you should be trashing, or you're going to be sabotaging your later game play in order to win a fate battle, no? I guess this is easier for me in a deck building style game, but it's hard to reconcile in a game where when a card is gone, it's gone, especially when you have limited control over what's in your deck.

shnar wrote:
- Drawing multiple cards per turn: I don't like the overall randomness of card games, but since you're filling your hand every turn to 6 (or whatever your current reserve value is) as opposed to just drawing one card per turn, it rarely feels like you're stuck with the luck of the draw.


Lots of games let you draw back up to a specific hand size, for one. For two, it's still a luck based game, unless, as you say you're reducing the luck factor by doubling up objectives? So what you're saying is that rather than having 10 separate objective cards, I should be doubling up on at least some of them? I'll be honest, that never occurred to me and I don't know that I saw in the rules or was informed that you could do that.

shnar wrote:
- Asymmetrical goals: I like that Light Side and Dark Side have different goals, which therefore prescribe different styles of play.


That's exactly why I like Netrunner so much.

shnar wrote:
- Fits Theme surprisingly well: The Edge Battles, the Force Struggle, the Death Star Dial, all the mechanics and cards fit the theme really, really well. I love how you tend to hold a unit like Yoda back from fights so he can be used in the Force Struggles. How Vader feels like Vader. How Luke can be a bad ass given enough time. How Boba Fett captures units, etc. And the artwork is gorgeous! Another great fit for the theme.


Well, having a character able to damage, say a Star Destroyer, is a bit silly in my opinion, but doesn't really detract from my enjoyment of a game like this. I mean, a character with a blaster icon can destroy a capital ship, right? whistle

shnar wrote:
A combination of many factors goes in to making this game stand above the rest, but if you don't like the Edge Battles, then I doubt you'll ever like this game. Edge combined with Fill Hand combined with Objective Sets makes this far different from all other LCGs out there, and it's its main strength.



I appreciate your response and I'll give the game another shot because I actually want to like it, and I'm trying to figure out why I don't so far. The comments here have maybe given me some insight into mistakes I was making in how I viewed and played the edge battles, and that's probably why I said it was the "dumbest" part.

Anyway, thanks guys.
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Mark Papenfuss
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Zom B wrote:
mpappy wrote:
But I must ask, why are you even asking to be convinced to play this game? Are you a Star Wars fan?


As I said, my cousin really likes it and owns it. We are planning to hang out tomorrow because he's ditching work and it's my day off, and he already suggested we play. I figure if he likes it, I should too, as we have a massive amount of common interests.


I ask because I have yet to find someone who likes this game and isn't a Star Wars fan already---theme and art matter in the appeal. Still, it's cool you are willing to play this with your cousin despite it not being an ideal game for you.thumbsup
 
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David C.
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Well... i still have to find people I hang out with and I play Boardgames with who dont like StarWars. Who doesnt?
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Chris Byer
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I had a hard time getting into this game because of the swing element, I played probably 15-20 times with various opponents before finally getting rid of my sets. My CCG/LCG background prior to trying SWLCG had been in Netrunner and MtG, both games that are a far less swingy. With SW I found it difficult to develop a long term game plan or board position because it felt like I was facing a completely new game state every turn.

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Zom B wrote:
For two, it's still a luck based game, unless, as you say you're reducing the luck factor by doubling up objectives? So what you're saying is that rather than having 10 separate objective cards, I should be doubling up on at least some of them? I'll be honest, that never occurred to me and I don't know that I saw in the rules or was informed that you could do that.

This is probably a big reason why you are not liking the game. You need to be including 2 copies of the most powerful/important objective sets in your deck to add consistency. Playing 10 one-of sets is not a good way to play this game. When I first played with just the starter decks, which include only one copy of each set, I found the game very meh and highly random, as you seem to. When I started deckbuilding in earnest, using 2 copies of most objective sets, the game really clicked for me.

Before giving up on the game, try a few games with some decks built with doubled-up objectives. Try to include only 5-7 different objectives, doubling up on the ones that are most crucial to your strategy. It's a much more interesting game that way.
 
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Pauli Vinni
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I allso did not like this game very much with only one core set, because the game was so erratic. But I did like the game system. For me the second core system helped in that "erratic" part, because my deck vere much better focused on to follow "my plan". But it does not help, if you don't like the game system and mechanics.

I personally don't like Dominion very much, even it is guite popular card game and I like card games, but it is too pasiance type game for me, with too little interaction between players, so not everyone likes same games. So this maybe one of those games to you. But if you cousing likes this game, then putting most objectives twice in your deck helps a thing a lot for making this game more bearable...

Some explanation of the rules:
You can include most objective cards twice (if there is not limit printed on that objective) to make the deck more focused on spesific tactic. So the game will be less random.
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Scott Egan
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chbyer wrote:
I had a hard time getting into this game because of the swing element, I played probably 15-20 times with various opponents before finally getting rid of my sets. My CCG/LCG background prior to trying SWLCG had been in Netrunner and MtG, both games that are a far less swingy. With SW I found it difficult to develop a long term game plan or board position because it felt like I was facing a completely new game state every turn.



In many ways this is what I prefer over games like Magic. When you can only top-deck one card a turn, you have a major issue climbing out of a hole once you've been stuck in one. Though I disagree with being unable to develop a long term plan, just how you go about that requires a different mindset and ex[expectations from you deck.
 
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I'm in love with this game. The edge battles are crucial and more exciting than a poker match. The deck building part is perfect. Not just "put your strongest cards in there". I've got think about how each card fulfills a certain purpose. It's really thematic (if you hate the fact that a Rancor can destroy Home One, it's probably not your game - i.e. your lack of creativity is disturbing ). The artwork is brilliant and 9 out of 10 match ups are extremely close. Last minute victories for the win! I kinda feel sorry for you not liking it. cry
 
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Bryan F
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ScottieATF wrote:
In many ways this is what I prefer over games like Magic. When you can only top-deck one card a turn, you have a major issue climbing out of a hole once you've been stuck in one. Though I disagree with being unable to develop a long term plan, just how you go about that requires a different mindset and ex[expectations from you deck.


Not to change the subject, but in MtG there are absolutely loadsof ways you can get around topdecking one card a turn. If that's what bothers you about the game, you could easily build a deck that allows for multiple card draw options. That can be particularly powerful if your opponent is topdecking.

I only mention this because I think it's kind of an unfair comparison. Most card based games try and give you some ways to get around single card draws.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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chbyer wrote:
I had a hard time getting into this game because of the swing element, I played probably 15-20 times with various opponents before finally getting rid of my sets. My CCG/LCG background prior to trying SWLCG had been in Netrunner and MtG, both games that are a far less swingy. With SW I found it difficult to develop a long term game plan or board position because it felt like I was facing a completely new game state every turn.


My experience was just the opposite with Magic. Basically, the winner had won on by the second turn, based on the luck of the initial draw. The loser, being only able to draw one card per turn, just waited until he died and lost. Kind of lame.

I very much prefer Star Wars's style of gameplay, and after a few games, you learn a way of playing to accommodate the 'swing' so that has much more strategic play. And a lot of that strategy involves the deck building.

-shnar
 
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Scott Egan
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Zom B wrote:
ScottieATF wrote:
In many ways this is what I prefer over games like Magic. When you can only top-deck one card a turn, you have a major issue climbing out of a hole once you've been stuck in one. Though I disagree with being unable to develop a long term plan, just how you go about that requires a different mindset and ex[expectations from you deck.


Not to change the subject, but in MtG there are absolutely loadsof ways you can get around topdecking one card a turn. If that's what bothers you about the game, you could easily build a deck that allows for multiple card draw options. That can be particularly powerful if your opponent is topdecking.

I only mention this because I think it's kind of an unfair comparison. Most card based games try and give you some ways to get around single card draws.


But those are cards that are going to have to be included in your deck and cost you resources to play. And all of that to get out of just top-decking. I don't like that about alot of games. I don't like having to commit deck space to a draw engine and I don't like the effect that is that draw engine not getting started. I prefer the one in this game that is a function of the base rules as it's always available.

I find it curious that you never thought to double up objectives in this game. Do you only play singular copies of cards in your other LCGs/CCGs/TCGs as well?

 
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Thomas De Wolf
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Although I think Netrunner is the best lcg right now, I have come to love SW:lcg too. The first two or three matches I played I also thought it was mediocre. This was due to a confusing rules explanation, overpowered decks I played with and decks with only one objective of each card were the opponent drew a quick emperor and I kept drawing crap units. I wasn't impressed due to these balance issues and had difficulties grasping the rules.

But then the game started to grow on me, and the matches I played became exciting with both sides mostly having a chance for the win in the last round. I already saw a few spectacular comebacks and thriller finales.

What I like about the game :

* all cards get used: it bothers me that in other lcg you have utterly bad cards, that just sit there, looking sad in the box. I like to see them in play without penalizing my decks, and here it's possible since the other player has to deal with them as well.
* many decisions to make during a round. I certainly don't have a feeling the game plays me.
* the edge battle bluff. It's more tactical than it appears in the first few games. It makes you think about holding good cards into your hand. You don't splash them down just because you can. The twist of fate card seems a silly swingy factor, but it also makes you think before you splash a card in the edge battle just because you can.
* it's not over until the end. I have the feeling to always get at least a shot for the win. This is the cardgame were this feeling is the strongest to me.
* quick deckbuilding, good since I already have lotr and netrunner who are asking a lot of time commitement to build decks.

I do like to play it casual, I bought 2 core sets to build decks with double objectives. There are only 4-5 people I know that play it casual too and I like to play thematic decks against them.
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Daniel Nenadovic
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I tried this in late 2012 and just did not understand it. Like many new players, I was playing all of the units out that I could and trying to win every battle. I gave my core set away to a friend who was enjoying the game more than I was and did not touch it for a year.

Just this month, however, I had another gaming friend dive into it and asked my other friend is he was still following it, which he was. I'm a Star Wars fan and if I was going to dive in I wanted to do it before there were 50 expansion packs, so I just got back into it this month.

It is a very different game than any other card game that I've ever played and realizing that has helped me immensely.

You don't need to play every unit in your hand. You don't need to win every Edge battle. You don't need to win the Force struggle. You could take two or three objectives out in a single turn and win the game in a snap. The game is usually over within just a few turns. It's not a long game for the most part, often even if it's a Sith Control deck that's just running the timer down it's still short and a few key moments are going to win or lose you the game.

You definitely want two of most of your objective sets, assuming that they're not limited, for consistency.

But, as others have stated, because of its draw mechanic and your ability to control how quickly you're running through your own deck through card usage or conservation, this game feels much less dependent on luck once you're running two of your important sets as possible.

There is so much to think about in this game, as well. Yoda might be great on the board. You could enhance him and turn him into a beast or he could win your force struggles. But he's fragile. Can you protect him? Can you get his strikes through safely? If you dedicate him to the force, will it change the course of the game? Or would it be better to save him for a crucial edge battle for those FIVE force bubbles? Should I attack now and win an edge with him in the stack, or should I save him for a crucial defense? If I put him into the Edge, does it look like my opponent is going to Twist of Fate? No card in this game is useless, and most cards have multiple uses. Figuring out how to use them and when and the benefits and costs of each means that you need to think before you play, and I absolutely love this.
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Bryan F
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ScottieATF wrote:
But those are cards that are going to have to be included in your deck and cost you resources to play. And all of that to get out of just top-decking. I don't like that about alot of games. I don't like having to commit deck space to a draw engine and I don't like the effect that is that draw engine not getting started. I prefer the one in this game that is a function of the base rules as it's always available.

I find it curious that you never thought to double up objectives in this game. Do you only play singular copies of cards in your other LCGs/CCGs/TCGs as well?



1. Deck building in MtG is definitely an art. You can't expect to pick out a random assortment of cards and win. Carefully weighing what you add or not is a big part of the fun for me.

2. Most of my MtG playing these days are in the cube format. We have a common pool of single cards that we draft from and then build decks out of to play with that evening.

3. Not doubling up the objectives was just one of those tunnel vision style oversights that got me.
 
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Bryan F
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Just to update:

I played two matches last week and got destroyed both times. I felt like I built a relatively focussed deck that had lots of Hoth stuff working together, plenty of units and, yes, four doubled objectives.

Regardless, he as the Empire literally decimated me both times. I just could not keep up with his constant assault of units (we counted after and I had more units in my deck) plus his absolute dominance of the balance of the force.

I can mostly only attribute it to terrible luck drawing cards. You can't win an edge battle if you have no units to defend with. You can't win the balance of the force if two opponent units have more or equal force icons to the three or four units you manage to get out.

Obviously, I was struck with some bad luck and, yes, probably made some mistakes in choosing objectives, though it didn't feel like it. Regardless, it's hard to maintain a positive attitude about wanting to learn and like this game when it still feels like the outcome is set as soon as the balance of the force is decided.

This is probably the most frustrating CCG/LCG I've ever played. I just haven't been able to come at it from the correct angle yet, I guess.
 
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Patrick Brennan
Australia
St Ives, Sydney
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Zom B wrote:
Regardless, it's hard to maintain a positive attitude about wanting to learn and like this game when it still feels like the outcome is set as soon as the balance of the force is decided.

This is just learning game stuff though. There are successful decks that ignore the balance of the force altogether, and rely on other means to win. Deck-building is one important aspect in trying to define a game-winning strategy (with fallback plans); playing that deck successfully is a different beast and requires practice. The game definitely rewards perseverance.

Having said that, the Echoes of the Force cycle will be providing a bunch of new tricks that continually upset the balance of the force, making it switch more often during a game.
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