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Subject: How difficult is CL solo? And compared to other COIN games? rss

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Odd-Gunnar Wikmark
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Hi,

I want to try out the COIN series and have my eyes set on CL (I think). I will primarily play it solo. I get that CL is a bit shorter in play length. How is the difficulty for solo play? And is that different for the different factions (Govt and the castro one)? If you have tried other coin games, how does CL rank against AA and ADP?

thanks, I just need to sort this out before ordering

oh, by difficult I do not mean complexity of rules but strength of AI (I guess) or "do you lose more than win"?
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Odd-Gunnar Wikmark
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I couldn´t wait any longer and totally broke down. Ordered Cuba Libre today
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Terry Maciw
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I've not played Cuba Libra, but I have played Labyrinth solo. I also own A distant Plain but have not played that solo yet (just a few turns familiarization). The one problem I found with both games is just understanding what you are supposed to be doing and then add in understanding what the 'other' players are trying to achieve (even with the flow charts), it makes it hard to get into at first. What really helped me out in the end on Labyrinth was the Lwotai program that runs the opponent for you. It really speeds up play and lets you concentrate on your goals in the game. After a few plays it makes the both sides objectives much clearer. Great program !
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Odd-Gunnar Wikmark
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Interesting. I was looking at Labyrinth also but decided to get a COIN game instead. It looks like they share a lot of similarities in mechanism though. Watching videos help clarify issues with what to do. I will be playing against the bots mainly, looking forward to it.
 
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Ambroz Podkoritnik
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I suggest start playing it to control all factions.
You need to get feel for all actions of individual faction first as you will find hard to control non-players (bots) at the beginning using non-player algorithms.

Afterwards you will gradually become familiar take actions with non-players and game will be smooth, challenging and fun to play.
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Alessandro Trovato
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Just trying to learn CL solo, multiplayer soon. It seems to me that playing the non-players factions flow-charts helps a lot to understand "what they are supposed to do" and how actions are functional to their goals.
This seems really the biggest hurdle when approaching the COIN system...

Alex
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Nathan Lee
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To the Ops original question, the bots play at a decent level in Cuba Libre. However, I found that the bots in AA to be the best in many ways - in CL I found it fairly easy to win as the July 26, as you just have to get spread out and do a bunch of terror, especially since the govbot seems to spend its way into bankruptcy well before the prop card. I think smart government play is primarily based on resource management to a degree not present in the other COIN game governments, and the bot on their own will take ops when a pass would usually be the best option.

I have limited experience with solo ADP, but the bots are much more intricate. If you are learning COIN, start with CLICK or AA first and get familiar with the system.
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Odd-Gunnar Wikmark
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thegreat2 wrote:
To the Ops original question, the bots play at a decent level in Cuba Libre. However, I found that the bots in AA to be the best in many ways - in CL I found it fairly easy to win as the July 26, as you just have to get spread out and do a bunch of terror, especially since the govbot seems to spend its way into bankruptcy well before the prop card. I think smart government play is primarily based on resource management to a degree not present in the other COIN game governments, and the bot on their own will take ops when a pass would usually be the best option.

I have limited experience with solo ADP, but the bots are much more intricate. If you are learning COIN, start with CLICK or AA first and get familiar with the system.


CLICK?
 
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Jeff Grossman
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thegreat2 wrote:
in CL I found it fairly easy to win as the July 26, as you just have to get spread out and do a bunch of terror, especially since the govbot seems to spend its way into bankruptcy well before the prop card.


Grr... I still haven't won a solo game with the 26 July. The Govbot is generally too good at controlling and clearing cities and by the time I've built a winning position, I have a rampant Syndicate to deal with.

I bow to your skill, Nathan.

As far as learning the game(s), I still find the best way is two player, two factions per player, with "god mode" (solo, controlling all factions) my second choice. After I'm comfortable with each faction's capabilities, I start turning on the bots.
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Volko Ruhnke
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You know that designers are not meant to win their own games ...
 
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Jeff Grossman
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I don't mind losing to better players (ie. everybody), but losing to the bots is irksome. cry
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Odd-Gunnar Wikmark
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I am glad it is not a walk in the park, at least Really looking forward to this. I got Cuba Libre due to the (potential) shorter playtime and the two solo playable factions. Until I can get my 12 year old interested, it is going to be solo But I must say I was really torn between this and AA - which theme I think I find more exciting. I hope I will follow the COIN series for years to come.
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Olav Riediger
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I played Labyrinth, AA, and CL solo. When it comes to complexity, I would rate them like this:
1. AA
2. Labyrinth
3. CL (least complex)

They are all great games, but when playing them solo, I prefer CL mostly for two reasons:
- Bot operations can quickly be resolved (which is true for Lab as well, but not so much for AA).
- Having to keep an eye on more than one opponent adds tons of fun in my eyes (which is true for AA as well, but not for Lab).

Enjoy your copy of CL!

Cheers, Olav
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Rodi de Boer
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olav wrote:
I played Labyrinth, AA, and CL solo. When it comes to complexity, I would rate them like this:
1. AA
2. Labyrinth
3. CL (least complex)

They are all great games, but when playing them solo, I prefer CL mostly for two reasons:
- Bot operations can quickly be resolved (which is true for Lab as well, but not so much for AA).
- Having to keep an eye on more than one opponent adds tons of fun in my eyes (which is true for AA as well, but not for Lab).

Enjoy your copy of CL!

Cheers, Olav


I think Labyrinth was a little less complex than Cuba Libre. And I'm only referring to the solo game. With Labyrinth the bot was a little too easy to get a hang of and know where you didn't have to pay much attention, let things hang a little. Don't know how to explain myself that well.

But with Cuba Libre I am still wrapping my head around all the actions and the different factions and the bots have a deeper (more complex) flowchart than the one from Labyrinth. Maybe this is because they need to pay attention to more factions.

I do think Cuba Libre is much more fun thanLabyrinth solo. You have more options, can play at least two factions solo and I guess I generally like the gameplay just a bit more (mostly open cards vs. closed cards in hand).
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Marcus Kielly
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Akashi_12 wrote:
I am glad it is not a walk in the park, at least Really looking forward to this. I got Cuba Libre due to the (potential) shorter playtime and the two solo playable factions. Until I can get my 12 year old interested, it is going to be solo But I must say I was really torn between this and AA - which theme I think I find more exciting. I hope I will follow the COIN series for years to come.


Be interested to hear how you get on with your new purchase
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Odd-Gunnar Wikmark
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sunwukung wrote:
Akashi_12 wrote:
I am glad it is not a walk in the park, at least Really looking forward to this. I got Cuba Libre due to the (potential) shorter playtime and the two solo playable factions. Until I can get my 12 year old interested, it is going to be solo But I must say I was really torn between this and AA - which theme I think I find more exciting. I hope I will follow the COIN series for years to come.


Be interested to hear how you get on with your new purchase


It has been quite a blast! I have played through both playbook examples (one solo and one playing all factions) + a new solo play, on my own, as the Govt. I purchased CL over the others because it is smaller and presumably plays shorter than the others. Well, if that´s true, the others are really long games. I used 4-5 h to complete my first solo play, and it ended on the second propaganda card. Of course I am slow the first time, but I do not any longer consider play time a factor in the equation.

I do enjoy it quite a bit. It has been so long since I have had a game that I want to just have one more round before I call it a night. This is one such game.

I do not know what playing method I prefer, solo vs Bots or multiplayer solo (playing all factions). The Bots tend to do more or less the same, but there are moments that I just went ..aaaahh.. did he see that coming? Sometimes they just messes directly with my plans. Other times the bots are not so smart (I made some posts in the rules section here if you are interested).

But so far so good. One of the more enjoyable games solo, can´t wait to get it on the table with my gaming friends! I certainly recommend it. It is rock solid.

Will I get more COIN games? Good question, not for a while yet I think - they all seem quite similar (particular AA and CL). If I do, I will probably get ADP as the theme interests me a lot. As I said, I no longer think there are very different play times between the games.
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