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Subject: Kickstarter fatigue? rss

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Joey V

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Hi all, I'm awaiting some awesome Kickstarter games I backed in 2013, and I am curious if you guys are excited for the new 2014 releases on Kickstarter or have reached "Kickstarter fatigue."

1. What games did you back that you're still waiting on?
2. Any that blew away expectations?
3. Which games disappointed you?
4. What rewards and exclusives made you happy?
5. Did any feel like a cheap money trap?

My own game Chaosmos is on Kickstarter (I won't link to it here) and I'd love to avoid pitfalls that befell other publishers that went that route.

This has been an amazing community and I'll be here for many years to come.

-joey
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Thats Chaosmos game looks like a cheap money trap



Edit:

I am waiting on Shadows of Brimstone and the new Krosmaster and run fight die. I had to actually back out of Chaosmos due to financials but will pick it up on release.


Still on the fence about zombie 15..


The best one thus far for me was the Doublesix Dice.... a hundred dice for 25 bucks is a fantastic deal..
 
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Edward Uhler
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While I'm not exactly answering your questions, some of the biggies, to us, regarding what we expect from a good KS campaign:

1) Communication is key! Not just during the KS, but regular, consistent updates (weekly? bi-weekly?) even if there is nothing new to report. Keep your backers in the loop and that will cure most ills. The worst thing is not hearing about what we backed for weeks/months. Pandasaurus Games has lost a lot of future customers by how poorly they have communicated their 1-year late Lost Valley: The Yukon Goldrush 1896. Don't let that happen to you simply because you didn't think it was important enough to keep your backers in the loop.

2) Don't overdo the updates. Take the Mega Man KS that just recently ended...we were getting 3-5 updates A DAY and to say that was annoying is an understatement. FWIW, we backed out.

3) We may be the expception on this one, but we really hate being nickel and dimed to death. What I mean is the base game is $X, but if you want the stretch goals, it's $X + $X. Then, if you want this expansion here, it's $X more. Don't do that, please?

4) Have the rules uploaded for backers to peruse before your KS starts.

5) Have a gameplay video made for backers to watch before your KS starts.

6) Quality components are a really big deal to most folks. If you have a solid game and crap components, folks aren't going to overlook it.


Lastly, go take a look at 2 KS'ers and see how they are/were run and model yourself after them. If you do that and provide a quality game, you will be set for success:

Xia: Legends of a Drift System
Euphoria: Build a Better Dystopia
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Drinky Drinky
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cannibalkid wrote:


1. What games did you back that you're still waiting on?
2. Any that blew away expectations?
3. Which games disappointed you?
4. What rewards and exclusives made you happy?
5. Did any feel like a cheap money trap?



1) None all are on schedule (Though technically still waiting on Wasteland)
2) Star Realms and The great Heartland hauling Co
3) There were a couple that I don;t play as often, but not disappointed
4) Euphoria
5) Yes , I used my head and didn't back those.
 
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Nathan Larsen
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1. What games did you back that you're still waiting on? Moongha Invaders: Mad Scientists and Atomic Monsters Attack the Earth! Small World Designer Edition

2. Any that blew away expectations? I'm surprised by how much I'm enjoying Walk the Plank!

3. Which games disappointed you? Boss Monster: The Dungeon Building Card Game Looked good, but wasn't fun.

4. What rewards and exclusives made you happy? Haven't gotten it yet, but just thinking about Small World Designer Edition makes me smile.

5. Did any feel like a cheap money trap? Nah.
 
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Eric Brosius
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I backed 18OE: On the Rails of the Orient Express and am awaiting it. The publisher has been providing great updates. I backed 1862: Railway Mania in the Eastern Counties, got it, and am happy with it.

So out of 2 games Kickstarted, one was a success and the other is looking like one.
 
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Bob Gallo
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Count me in the camp that is suffering from total KS fatigue. I have backed around 7 games but I'm tired of paying full retail on a product that I may or may not receive before it ends up at CSI at 40% or more off. I'm tired of KS exclusive stretch goals that clearly were intended to be a part of the base game. And while I do my homework and don't feel like I've been burned personally, I'm in a game group that plays a lot of KS games for review before publication and many of them are graphically over-produced while being very under developed in terms of game play.

I'm done backing KS games. Some of them are very good, I'll buy them when they hit the retail channel if they are complete (ie: if absence of the exclusives don't cripple the game). I know the argument.. "if no one backs this game it will never get printed" ... not a problem for me, I've got about 50 titles on my CSI wish list, there's always something else I can buy.
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Mitch Renwick
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cannibalkid wrote:

1. What games did you back that you're still waiting on?
2. Any that blew away expectations?
3. Which games disappointed you?
4. What rewards and exclusives made you happy?
5. Did any feel like a cheap money trap?
-joey


I would say Im suffering from Kickstarter fatigue. I've backed out of 3 projects recently that I would have certainly backed a year ago.

Secrets of the Lost Tomb, Megaman, and Chaosmos

The largest part of it is the waiting and delays, but part is also that I'm trying to cull my collection.

1. games im still waiting on
evil intent, relic knights, kaosball, Xia, nanobots, wrath of kings, Kingdom death, and krosmaster 2.

Relic knights is the one that has done me in. Backed in August of 2012, originally expected to be May 2013, and its looking like May 2014 at the earliest.

2. The communication on Xia has blown me away. Cody is doing things right. I just hope the game doesnt continue to see more delays.

3. Relic knioghts has disappointed me most becuase of the obscene delays, but the fact that krosmaster 1 was $100, and then sold at retail for $40, was pretty disappointing as well.

4. maybe the small world 2 bonuses? I pledged for the digitl game, but added extra for the bonus packs and leaders pack, then sold them on ebay for a very healthy profit.

5. Krosmaster for the reasons listed above. inflated prices, terrible communication, and limited pledges at the optimal levels.
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Philipp Ottensamer
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1. What games did you back that you're still waiting on?
Teramyyd: Earthsphere, Kaosball, XIA: Legends of a Drift System, Cthulhu Wars, Journey: Wrath of Demons, Shadows of Brimstone, Argent: The Consortium, Kingdom Death - and yes - Chaosmos .

2. Any that blew away expectations?
Almost every game up till now, that makes: Euphoria, Nothing Personal, The Agents, A Study in Emerald.

3. Which games disappointed you?
Dark, Darker, Darkest a bit, but it's still an okay game .

4. What rewards and exclusives made you happy?
Exclusives are always nice, but the best thing is when you really see the quality getting better through the KS campaign. The Agents plastic cards or Euphorias components anyone? Amazing!

5. Did any feel like a cheap money trap?
I'm still a bit worried about Teramyyd: Earthsphere, but it still looks like it's more or less on track, so here's to hoping .

Wish you all the best Joey, I'm really looking forward to your game . Only fear that I have, is that the combat could be a tad too simplistic, especially the (seemingly) endless back and forth until one side wins. Aside from that, it looks amazing .
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Joey V

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Twyker wrote:
Wish you all the best Joey, I'm really looking forward to your game . Only fear that I have, is that the combat could be a tad too simplistic, especially the (seemingly) endless back and forth until one side wins. Aside from that, it looks amazing .


We get a lot of questions regarding combat in Chaosmos. Basically, the videos depict players revealing cards, but it's not clear what is really going on in their minds. Combat is just a way to see your opponent's hand and possibly get a better weapon or the Ovoid. It's not the most critical aspect of the game. Many times I have seen clever players win the game after losing 90% of their combats. The trick is all in timing and careful concealment of information.

Played cards immediately go back to your hand; only some cards are single use. Regardless of who wins the combat, both players may have revealed a massive amount of cards, weakening both of them (because there are counters out there that reverse the damage of those weapons). The choice of revealing or not revealing a card is a complex one. It will help you win the combat, but now everyone knows you have that card. Immediately after combat, smart players will get rid of some of their more prominent cards in favor of other cards. Also, players roll dice PRIOR to playing cards, so they know what their chances are at the beginning of combat. I often prefer to lose a combat on purpose rather than reveal too many cards to others at the table.

I'd like to release a video soon about combat strategies.
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Joey V

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Eric Brosius wrote:
I backed 18OE: On the Rails of the Orient Express and am awaiting it. The publisher has been providing great updates. I backed 1862: Railway Mania in the Eastern Counties, got it, and am happy with it.

So out of 2 games Kickstarted, one was a success and the other is looking like one.


Cool; I am interested in train games, but I am terrible at them.
 
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James Cowling
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1. Lots. I'm waiting on 18 Kickstarers related to tabletop gaming.

2. D-Day Dice, Dicecards and VivaJava.

3. Rolling Freight, Dice Age, Glory to Rome, FrankenDie. And the Catan boards because they failed so hard in delivering what they promised and made so many assumptions about what their supporters wanted.

4. I like to get a lot of stuff when I buy in at retail price. I'm not so altrustic that I would be willing to support a project without getting a significantly greater value than the retail product.

5. In hindsight, I would not have bought Fleet at the price offered. The bonuses were kinda weak, the exclusives irrelevant, and all told cost me 250% of wholesale.

Ah, Chaosmos. I've actually had two customers ask me about buying in at the retail level, but you only make that available to US retailers.
 
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James Cowling
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eapeas wrote:
While I'm not exactly answering your questions, some of the biggies, to us, regarding what we expect from a good KS campaign:

2) Don't overdo the updates. Take the Mega Man KS that just recently ended...we were getting 3-5 updates A DAY and to say that was annoying is an understatement. FWIW, we backed out.


I am a pretty signficant KS supporter, and have backed out of three backed projects that spammed me heavily.
 
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Scott Everts
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I'm feeling a little fatigue this year. I've been a big KS supporter since the original Alien Frontiers. Last year I spent way over $1000 on KS projects, more then traditional purchases. The past few months I've tried to pull back on backing and have dropped out of a few. Just trying to be smarter about what I back. I've made a number of poor decisions in the past, games that were terrible or just didn't fit my group.

Last year I backed 2 big ticket games, Heroes of Normandie & Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients. This year going to avoid those big price games. I do like the latest trend of small games for low prices like Coin Age & Tiny Epic Kingdoms. Even if the game is a dude, at least I didn't burn hundreds of dollars on it! Hope that trend continues.

We have seen a lot of games last year that pushed you to back in the $100+ level to get stretch goals. Some even made stretch goals that you had to buy after they were unlocked?!? What kind of goal is that? And the long list of confusing backer levels that require a backer to do a lot of homework to figure out. Keep it simple!

I hope I can keep myself under control. I've heard a lot of people say they are going to buy less and back less this year. When I look at my overstuffed shelves full of unplayed games I realize I need to get these to the table. I think we need a 12 step program to control our purchasing addictions!
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Herbert Griffin
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1. What games did you back that you're still waiting on?
Fallen. I bought three copies thinking I'd be able to give a couple as xmas gifts, but soon learned that almost all projects I backed were delayed one way or another. That left a scar and I don't get as excited about KS projects now. Edit: I don't mind about Fallen being pushed back, in particular, since they were transparent about it and spent lots of time, revising, playtesting, proofreading their content.

2. Any that blew away expectations?
The Agents was a nice surprise. After fumbling around with the rules, gameplay is actually satisfying. I wish it was quick and small enough to play 3+ players while eating lunch, but this game demands a decent amount of real estate. For the base game (plastic cards!) and 6 expansions, this was definitely a steal.

Zombicide is a game I bought on retail. It's my favorite zombie game at the moment. Once I saw season 2 at my FLGS, I got suckered into buying them.

Escape: Curse of the Temple is one I bought on ebay since I was a year late. Not too many of my friends enjoy the frantic pace of this game, but I love it. Wish I could play it more.

3. Which games disappointed you?
The games that I missed early bird backings since I wasn't aware of them soon enough. If there was a big price difference between early bird and normal pledge levels, I passed on them.

4. What rewards and exclusives made you happy?
I wish I joined Kickstarter when Zombicide seasons 1 and 2 came out. All those exclusive figures must be awesome to play with, but I'm not shelling out more than $10 on ebay for one of them.

5. Did any feel like a cheap money trap?
Smash Monster Rampage felt that way. As a potential backer, it was hard to justify all stretch goal addons for just more cardboard cutouts. I passed on this one.

Some of the 8 bit video game theme-based games seemed more about stretch goals and addons than the core game play. I could be totally wrong about some of them, but I still didn't back any of them.
 
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1. Last year was the first year I backed a game on kickstarter (and by a I mean 18). I am definitely taking it slower this year. I would like to get the items I backed last year before I go big on things this year. I have a $50 max right now on any project I find interesting. So I am waiting on all of the projects I backed.

2. I hope they all blow away my expectations.

3. I hope none of them disappoint me.

4. I like exclusives, I am a completionist. I have to have everything or I feel like I am missing something. In that case I will not even get involved in a game that I am missing "exclusive content" from.

5. The most I spent on a project was Myth where I got the double captain pledge and every single, non-base set add-on. I love the look of this game and am fairly certain if won't fail to blow me away. Its the prefect dungeon crawl I've been looking for forever. There are a couple of others I got an everything tier (The Kings Armory and Secrets of the Lost Tomb) and some double digits.

I didn't back Chaosmos because it doesn't float my boat. I like soloable games more than anything. If it is a group game, there has to be some face bashing, or resource collection/ usage.
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Helen Christie
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I'm definitely feeling kickstarter fatigue - I backed 16 tabletop games last year! I'm tightening my budget this year, so I'll be backing less.

1. What games did you back that you're still waiting on?
Machina Arcana, Havok & Hijinks, Alchemist Academy, Tessen, Pack of Heroes, Thomas Tippins, Myth, Terramyd, A Study in Emerald and Baldrick's Tomb.

2. Any that blew away expectations?
Euphoria: Build a Better Dystopia - it was a fantastic campaign, the communication was spot on and when I get the game out all I want to do is play with the little gold bars...the game itself is pretty fun too

3. Which games disappointed you?
None of the games I have received so far have disappointed me. A couple of the campaigns did though and these have contributed to my decision to cut back on kickstarter spending this year.

4. What rewards and exclusives made you happy?
The gold bars and clay bricks that came with Euphoria. I also love the explorer meeples that came with Relic Expedition.

5. Did any feel like a cheap money trap?
I don't know about 'cheap' but I'm really hoping that Teramyyd and Myth will be worth the money I've put in!
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Neil Blaiberg
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cannibalkid wrote:



1. What games did you back that you're still waiting on?
2. Any that blew away expectations?
3. Which games disappointed you?
4. What rewards and exclusives made you happy?
5. Did any feel like a cheap money trap?



1. Paperback, Coin Age & Lords of War, although all are still on schedule.
2. Not really
3. From delivery: Amerigo. Love the game, but I got it late (after retail), and communication was poor from Queen. SO poor I refuse to back another QG KS.

Council of Verona was a little 'meh' but the project and communication was excellent, and cheap enough that it's ok.
4. None, although the copy of It Happens with Amerigo was nice,
5. Plenty, but pulled out of most. Lords of War sucked me in for far more than I should have however. But that's my fault.

For reference, I didn't back too many, living in the UK postage is a no-no for lots of projects.

What's more interesting is the ones I pulled out of backing:
Alien Frontiers: Decided I could get it retail if needed (still not got it).
Wok Star: Possibly THE WORST game play video ever created.
Dark Hoprse: Just wasn't going to get it to the table
Canterbury: Seemed a bit too limited without random setup


I agree with lots of the above, but in general my advice would be:

- First video needs to be short and give a flavour of the game
- Seperate rules video and gameplay video.
- Gameplay video needs to show what the game is like to play (see Wok Star for how not to do it)
- Communication: just like Goldilocks, not too much and not too little. Communication should probably increase if the project is delayed.
- Backer levels - for the love of all things holy, please streamline these. Too many backer levels hurts my head - particuarly when there are 10 levels before you even get to the level of the base game. I'd much rather see flatter levels with more add-ons personally.
 
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1. Currently not waiting on any Kick Starter projects that I backed

2-3. Only sponsored one KS project in 2013. It was neither phenomenal nor a disappointment. Although late I didn't mind, knew that seemed to be the trend

4. I liked receiving the 10 bonus cards. Getting my name in the rulebook forever only made me smile

5. Quite frankly it seems that all the games have the potential to produce endless extensions. I would not call them money traps. One can have worse additions than purchasing games and responding to forums

I generally avoid games that even have the potential for extensions, having become fed up with Catan (after the 1st two extensions) and all CCGs.
 
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Mitch Renwick
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TheRiddler1976 wrote:
[q="cannibalkid"]


- Backer levels - for the love of all things holy, please streamline these. Too many backer levels hurts my head - particuarly when there are 10 levels before you even get to the level of the base game. I'd much rather see flatter levels with more add-ons personally.


This is one thing that I feel like the CMoN kickstarters have gotten right.

There is a clear level to get. You get the base game, and all the freebies.
Then to boost pledges as time goes on, freebies and addons get alternated. This creates excitement for stretch goals, and a steady growth of funds as people up their pledges for the addons.

JAG has done the opposite with their Krosmaster kickstarters, and both have turned me off from getting everything. They basically post a super expensive tier, that isn't nearly worth the money until the campaign is hours from completion.

As for one more tip, please keep your estimated arrival dates realistic. I'm so tired of delays, it would be nice to actually get something on time. It just seems par for the course to give the delivery estimate as a best case scenario. Or list December as a delivery date, when December is actually the date it will go on a boat and leave China. Yes shipping may have started, but people look at estimated delivery a when the game will be in their hands.

It all makes kickstarter feel like a scam, and the developers aren't being 100% honest with their investors.
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Liam
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Moved from General Gaming to Kickstarter.
 
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Evil Bob
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1. What games did you back that you're still waiting on?
I only Kickstarted 3 games in 2013, since the price for shipping to Canada suddenly doubled. I received all three games.

2. Any that blew away expectations?
Mercury Games' The Guns of Gettysburg blew me away with their production quality as well as the fact that I received my copy BEFORE the listed delivery date. They ran an excellent Kickstarter campaign by keeping it simple.

GameSalute's Nothing Personal blew away my expectations with their production quality as well. They produced a beautiful game that I'm hoping to get to the table more often this year. They also managed to deliver my game to me within the time frame outlined in the campaign.

3. Which games disappointed you?
None. I do extensive research before pledging for anything on Kickstarter and I'm generally very happy with how things turn out.

4. What rewards and exclusives made you happy?
An authentic Civil War bullet was included with my copy of The Guns of Gettysburg. This has no relevance on the gameplay but I'm glad that it was included. It's definitely not something I would have thought to purchase on my own. Mercury Games really thought outside the box with their stretch goal.

5. Did any feel like a cheap money trap?
Again, because I do lots of research before pledging, I tend to avoid the money traps.

That being said, despite my wonderful experiences with Kickstarter, I won't be Kickstarting any new projects this year. I've come to the realization that I no longer want to take the risks involved with backing a Kickstarter. I'd prefer to wait until a game has been produced and distributed. That way I'll be able to read reviews and find out if the game is worth picking up (cheaper) at retail.
 
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Eric Johnson
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1. What games did you back that you're still waiting on?

Kaosball
Kingdom Death: Monster
Myth
Name of the Wind Playing Cards
Adventure Maximus
The Big Fix
Fallen
Wok Star
Help Wanted
Dungeon Roll Winter Promo
Coin Age
Doublesix Dice


2. Any that blew away expectations?

Compounded ended up being a great game with fantastic components. Rivet Wars, a great set of minis, CMoN's best so far, and a fast fun game that is just dripping with theme.

3. Which games disappointed you?

None really as far as actual gameplay. Zombicide S2 of course suffered from the shipping issues (still people waiting), as did The Agents (poor packaging, crush damage like crazy). But both games play great and I like them a lot.

4. What rewards and exclusives made you happy?

Zombicide mini exclusives were great, cause I was able to sell them and use the $$ to back more KS games! Showing my kids their names in the Robot Turtles rule book was great too. But for the most part most of the stuff I've gotten so far hasn't had many exclusives.

5. Did any feel like a cheap money trap?

Not yet, I feel very satisfied with my investments.
 
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cannibalkid wrote:

1. What games did you back that you're still waiting on?
2. Any that blew away expectations?
3. Which games disappointed you?
4. What rewards and exclusives made you happy?
5. Did any feel like a cheap money trap?


1. Myth, Epic Death!, Fallen, Reaper Bones II, Dungeon Roll: Winter Heroes Pack, Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients, Machina Arcana, and Camp Grizzly.

2. None of the games that I have recieved thus far have been beyond the scope of my expectations. Though, I have only received three board games that I have backed. The one kickstarter that did blew me away was the Games & Gears Pro Studio Brushes, these brushes were far better than I expected for the price I paid.

3.Kanzume Goddess I must point out that I have yet to play the game, but how Japanime Games (Cardhaus Games) handled things post Kickstarter, created an animosity in me that I packed the game up and put it in storage so I did not even have to look at it.

A few issues here; poor communication, it was bad after the Kickstarter ended, but was even worse when their Krosmaster Kickstarter started. They hired a PR manager and the communication got better, but this was after the game had already been delayed six months.

Then two new problems reared their ugly heads; they stated that all orders had shipped. A day later that there were some orders that had not shipped and that they had ran out of a backer reward, not a stretch goal, a reward that was to be included with the backers base pledge, granted it was a non-game reward.

All of this had me with some serious reservations on backing Krosmaster; when my questions fell on deaf ears (Emails and comments on the Kickstarter) I dropped my pledge. From which I hear is suffering from the same, if not similar woes. Although, I might pick up Krosmaster as I am backing the Wakfu Kickstarter and Ankama is offering the Yugo and Nox figures as part of a reward.

3.Getting the base less than retail; I do not want to pay for a game that will be offered at a lower price point than that of the Kickstarter.

Exclusives, though not to the point that it would discourage non-backers from picking it up later.

5.None that I have backed.

Though, browsing Kickstarter projects and seeing ones like this: Zombie Forge. Even though it does not look to have any hope of funding, a few red flags go off. The lack of game play mechanics and the clear difference in art styles in the pictures suggests to me that the work might be his or had commissioned . Then the stretch goal to turn the characters of the game into action figures; the Cody figure is the Scout from Team Fortress 2 with a different skin color, definitely not his creation.
 
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Matthew Gabbert
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cannibalkid wrote:
1. What games did you back that you're still waiting on?

So many that I've created a Geeklist to keep track of what I've backed, received, and played.

cannibalkid wrote:
2. Any that blew away expectations?

Blew away? Mmmm... not really, at least not so far. But I've been satisfied with everything and I like some more than others.

I thought Compounded and Canterbury felt very polished in their mechanics and design.

Eight-Minute Empire: Legends has been a big hit with my family and had probably gotten the most plays, in part because of the lovely artwork.

cannibalkid wrote:
3. Which games disappointed you?

Given the delays, I was a bit disappointed by the printing errors in Aces of Aces: Handy Rotary Series. The game is still quite playable and I'd back the Powerhouse books, but I guess I was a bit underwhelmed by the quality considering the price.

The Agents feels like it was rushed to market too quickly and could have used an experienced game developer to work with the designer a bit to iron out some of the unevenness.

cannibalkid wrote:
4. What rewards and exclusives made you happy?

As people have mentioned, the Deluxe components in Euphoria are pretty special. I actually got people to play who were leery of worker placement games, simply because they wanted to handle/fondle the gold ingots.

The extra maps for Eight-Minute Empire: Legends and the Fancy Box for The Agents are very nice. I like the plastic vials for Compounded but they do make it a little tricky to repack the box.

cannibalkid wrote:
5. Did any feel like a cheap money trap?

No, I don't back the ones that give off that vibe and for the games I do back, I avoid the higher pledge levels that don't add anything to the game (e.g., the Supreme edition of Euphoria).
 
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