Asgeir Jonsson
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I´ve had this game on my radar for some time and have played mage knight at least 10 times. The reason I havent played mage knight more is the setup time, fiddlines and endless amount of small rules. Is Robinson Crusoe similar in that aspect when playing solo ?
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Salim Khoury
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geirinn wrote:
I´ve had this game on my radar for some time and have played mage knight at least 10 times. The reason I havent played mage knight more is the setup time, fiddlines and endless amount of small rules. Is Robinson Crusoe similar in that aspect when playing solo ?


I have and love both games, I'd say MK is much fiddlier. 1-10 scale of fiddlieness...

MK: 9.5
RC: 7.5 6.5

Edit: The more I think about it the more I feel there is a bigger gap between the two games...RC number adjusted down. MK is easily & quite literally one of the toughest games to grasp and play perfectly. The same can not be said for RC. RC has it's bits and corner rules, and some things to keep in mind but MK is truly on a different level, so much so most people won't even play it with more than 2 players.
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Justin Green
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I have only played this game twice so far, but I have found it to be quite fiddly for what is essentially a worker placement game.

Probably not as bad as Mage Knight as far as small rules that are easy to forget, but there are plenty of small rules as well.

There are a lot of +1/-1 modifiers and tokens to remind you of effects that are supposed to happen at certain times.

+1 tokens for resource production
-1 tokens for worker placement
+1 tokens for monster strength
weather tokens
wound tokens
re-roll tokens
adventure tokens
black plastic cubes to indicate when an environmental prerequisite has been met, or when a character has used a special ability, or how many uses certain items have left...

Edit: Myself, I always seem to forget about the weather tokens.
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Bryan Watson
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I agree with Salimo. Mage Knight to me is more fiddly, but not by orders of magnitude. I enjoy both games very much.
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Mike Hunnicutt
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Honestly, the only thing that I still have trouble with, solo, is remembering to move the marker on the time track. ...Or wait. Maybe I did move it. ...Did I? Um. Lemme count the event cards. Okay. Yeah, I moved it. I guess that means I'm dead.
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Jake Lj
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I can't speak for Mage Knight because I haven't played it (although I really want to) but in terms of setup and play time for RC, I have played the first scenario twice, and setup, play, and tear down has been 2 hours or less both times (which I know isn't a measure of "fiddliness", but I'm not spending 90 minutes setting up)
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William L
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I do not find this game that fiddly at all. Never played Mage Knight, although I have been looking at it recently as a possible purchase. This game has some tokens and cubes that you need to place almost every turn, but once you play the game once or twice, it really flows and works quite easily.

Compared to something like Arkham Horror, where it is extremely fiddly, this game is nothing.
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Dave C
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The set-up is really only "fiddly" the first time. You'll store things in a manner that makes it quick to set up... which, I suppose implies some fiddliness.

Play isn't very fiddly... it's just that there are a lot of options as to what actions to take. In this game the fiddliness is in the player. The rules are pretty simple and easy.

Play it solo a couple of times (solo meaning with just one character) and you'll start to wonder what anyone could mean by this being a fiddly game... but don't forget that if you play with only one character you must add one (+1) to the Morale before executing the Morale Phase... which sounds pretty fiddly.

It's a fun game that really makes you anxious over what actions to take... everything seems to have measurable consequences. I'm happy to trade what some may see as fiddliness for what this game delivers.
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Jack Byrd
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I've found that a Plano-type box for the bits drastically reduces set-up/teardown time, to the point where it breaks the threshold of 'fiddly' vs. not.
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Banana Pants
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After many plays of Mage Knight, there are STILL rules I am discovering as having played wrong. This is not the case with Robinson. It is much easier to follow, and is much more "hands off" than Mage Knight. I just sold my MK at auction, but I will be keeping RC for a looooong time. It is one of my favorites: fast and fun.
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Justin Green
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Mr_Hunnicutt wrote:
Honestly, the only thing that I still have trouble with, solo, is remembering to move the marker on the time track. ...Or wait. Maybe I did move it. ...Did I? Um. Lemme count the event cards. Okay. Yeah, I moved it. I guess that means I'm dead.


I've done this as well.
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Michael Bishop
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RC does have a lot of small rules and things that are easy to forget or do wrong, but none of them "break" the game. Most of them apply to "edge" cases and almost all of them have been clearly resolved in the German rules.

Probably goes without saying, but this game is absolutely nothing like Mage Knight.
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Byron Campbell
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I don't consider either game to be fiddly. They both have small rules that are easy to remember, since they are thematic. Setup time is about the same: shuffling a few different piles of cards and tokens. The rulebook in Robinson is less clearly laid out, but some time on this forum should clear up any ambiguities.
 
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Jennie
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kittenhoarder wrote:
I don't consider either game to be fiddly. They both have small rules that are easy to remember, since they are thematic. Setup time is about the same: shuffling a few different piles of cards and tokens. The rulebook in Robinson is less clearly laid out, but some time on this forum should clear up any ambiguities.


I don't consider either game to be fiddly either, but even with more than 10 games played of each, there are things I forget to do in Robinson whereas the moves in Mage Knight feel more intuitive and natural to me, so I rarely miss a step. With both, I do still have to refer to the rules a bit, especially if there's been a gap since my last play.

I also have a theory that if Robinson Crusoe had a rulebook as complex as Mage Knight, with just as many details, and with a full walkthrough, then it might have made the game seem as complex as Mage Knight. As they are now, Mage Knight rules tell you with great detail how to resolve every tiny detail of every single situation, and while I don't consider this "fiddly," it does require the occasional reference back to the rule book. Robinson Crusoe rules, on the other hand, seem to stop short after explaining only about 80% of each situation, and you're left to a) look up FAQ, b) ask others on BGG, or c) Try to logically interpret the conclusion based on everything you know about the game. I know that Mage Knight is perceived as a complex game, but with such a superb rule book, it seems less so, to me anyway.

Also, +1 on using a Plano box to reduce set up and clean up time - with both games, but esp. with Robinson Crusoe. My box has 12 (12!) compartments, and I use them ALL in Robinson Crusoe.
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Salim Khoury
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gardener1817 wrote:
kittenhoarder wrote:
I don't consider either game to be fiddly. They both have small rules that are easy to remember, since they are thematic. Setup time is about the same: shuffling a few different piles of cards and tokens. The rulebook in Robinson is less clearly laid out, but some time on this forum should clear up any ambiguities.


I don't consider either game to be fiddly either, but even with more than 10 games played of each, there are things I forget to do in Robinson whereas the moves in Mage Knight feel more intuitive and natural to me, so I rarely miss a step. With both, I do still have to refer to the rules a bit, especially if there's been a gap since my last play.

I also have a theory that if Robinson Crusoe had a rulebook as complex as Mage Knight, with just as many details, and with a full walkthrough, then it might have made the game seem as complex as Mage Knight. As they are now, Mage Knight rules tell you with great detail how to resolve every tiny detail of every single situation, and while I don't consider this "fiddly," it does require the occasional reference back to the rule book. Robinson Crusoe rules, on the other hand, seem to stop short after explaining only about 80% of each situation, and you're left to a) look up FAQ, b) ask others on BGG, or c) Try to logically interpret the conclusion based on everything you know about the game. I know that Mage Knight is perceived as a complex game, but with such a superb rule book, it seems less so, to me anyway.

Also, +1 on using a Plano box to reduce set up and clean up time - with both games, but esp. with Robinson Crusoe. My box has 12 (12!) compartments, and I use them ALL in Robinson Crusoe.


I can agree with most of this...my initial comment really reflects complexity & fiddliness. I wasn't applying a strict definition of fiddly. If I were to take a strict line of fiddliness alone I'd say RC is more fiddly than MK, meaning, there are more bits to adjust, place, rearrange, & consider throughout the entire game.
 
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Asgeir Jonsson
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Ive played this game once now, and I think both setup time and fiddlyness is considerably less then in Mage Knight. Sure there is lots of stuff but you just plant it by the gameboard and then pack the whole thing together in bags or a plano box. And this seems to be a much more relaxing experience even though the game may be hard in other scenarios then the first( I won the first scenario solo pretty easily, hope Im not doing anything wrong).
Mage knight just boils my brain with the setup of all the cards and what tiles to use and how to arrange them differntly by each scenario, memorizing my deck and taking hard decisions which can leave you with tons of wounds. In my opinion MK simply has too many rules to be strictly fun, it becomes too much work. But it is a a masteriece in many ways though.
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Tamer Morad

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Print out the Reference Cards and Summary Sheets from the files section they are life savers!
 
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Tamer Morad

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Its a lot less fiddly than MK by a large margin at that, if that is a thing. Personally I can setup my MK in less than 10 mins because I keep all my decks sorted and all the bits in plano boxes. So all I do is shuffle and deal no real sorting saves a huge amount of time.
 
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