Ralph T
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I have a friend who was interested in BattleLore (Second Edition). He didn't like the fiddliness of Battles of Westeros so I am not sure Battlelore is going to be much different, seeing both are based on Borg's C&C. I am also questioning whether there is not a better system than playing cards that allow you to activate right, center and left flanks.

My question is, is C&C the best ancients/medieval/fantasy larger-scale tactical battle ruleset currently in print?

Is there another ruleset that is superior to C&C?
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Jim Cote
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Do you have more criteria? Does the game need to be super simple? I would argue that EVERY system is better than "playing cards that allow you to activate right, center and left flanks".
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Leo Zappa
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"Best" in what way? I own C&C Ancients and I think quite highly of it, but I'm not sure I'd say it's the 'best'. It's highly playable while still providing a modicum of historical fidelity. However, it is certainly not the most 'realistic' or 'detailed' tactical system available. For more realism, there is a price to be paid in rules overhead and playing time. It really depends upon what you value more - playability or simulative accuracy.
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Ralph T
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Criteria: A better light wargame on the same scale (i.e., not individual units, not a strategic scale game), which has a modicum of realistic immersion through the ruleset, and isn't over $100.
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Zigi Hogan
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As a wargamer and an Advanced Squad Leader player I can say, without a doubt, the single best tactical game out there is ASL.

Now, it is definitely not everyone's cup of tea! It is a very large very complex and hard to learn system and getting in can cost a larger amount than most are willing to pay. That said the starter kits (ie. Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #1, Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #2, Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #3) are in and out of print a lot and can fluctutate in price wildly but they can be had rather cheaply (I got my ASLSK1 in a Geekbay auction for 30 bucks!).

The starter kits are trimmed down versions of the full game and offer the same tactical choices but much more simply than the full ASL experience.

If you are looking for something less complex I can not suggest Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! (second edition) any more highly. It is a straight wargame of a tactical level with a very slight learning curve. It also offers enough depth for just about all but the most jaded wargamer to get many plays in. It is not a "historical simulation" by any strech of the term.

I would also suggest Combat Commander: Europe or any of the others of this series. I don't have a lot to add about this series since I am a relative newcomer and my experience with CC is very limited.
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Dan Moore
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I hope not.

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Ralph T
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Zigihogan wrote:
As a wargamer and an Advanced Squad Leader player I can say, without a doubt, the single best tactical game out there is ASL.

Now, it is definitely not everyone's cup of tea! It is a very large very complex and hard to learn system and getting in can cost a larger amount than most are willing to pay. That said the starter kits (ie. Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #1, Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #2, Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #3) are in and out of print a lot and can fluctutate in price wildly but they can be had rather cheaply (I got my ASLSK1 in a Geekbay auction for 30 bucks!).

The starter kits are trimmed down versions of the full game and offer the same tactical choices but much more simply than the full ASL experience.

If you are looking for something less complex I can not suggest Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! (second edition) any more highly. It is a straight wargame of a tactical level with a very slight learning curve. It also offers enough depth for just about all but the most jaded wargamer to get many plays in. It is not a "historical simulation" by any strech of the term.

I would also suggest Combat Commander: Europe or any of the others of this series. I don't have a lot to add about this series since I am a relative newcomer and my experience with CC is very limited.


These (well, not ASL) would be good except that I think he's looking for a fantasy themed game rather than a WWII themed one.
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Conan McNamara
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ralpher wrote:
I think he's looking for a fantasy themed game rather than a WWII themed one.


Mythic Battles?
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Zigi Hogan
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ralpher wrote:
Zigihogan wrote:
As a wargamer and an Advanced Squad Leader player I can say, without a doubt, the single best tactical game out there is ASL.

Now, it is definitely not everyone's cup of tea! It is a very large very complex and hard to learn system and getting in can cost a larger amount than most are willing to pay. That said the starter kits (ie. Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #1, Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #2, Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #3) are in and out of print a lot and can fluctutate in price wildly but they can be had rather cheaply (I got my ASLSK1 in a Geekbay auction for 30 bucks!).

The starter kits are trimmed down versions of the full game and offer the same tactical choices but much more simply than the full ASL experience.

If you are looking for something less complex I can not suggest Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! (second edition) any more highly. It is a straight wargame of a tactical level with a very slight learning curve. It also offers enough depth for just about all but the most jaded wargamer to get many plays in. It is not a "historical simulation" by any strech of the term.

I would also suggest Combat Commander: Europe or any of the others of this series. I don't have a lot to add about this series since I am a relative newcomer and my experience with CC is very limited.


These (well, not ASL) would be good except that I think he's looking for a fantasy themed game rather than a WWII themed one.


I was kind of wondering that with the mention of Both Battlelore AND BfW in the same post.

Unfortunately I have less than zero input on anything in the fantasy genre. The only game I own like that is Dungeons & Dragons: Conquest of Nerath Board Game which (now that I think if it) may be a good one for the OP to try. Though it is not really tactical each individual type of troop you use has different die rolls and power sets. This is much more like Dungeons and Dragons Axis & Allies more than anything else.
 
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Jeff Kayati
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ralpher wrote:
I have a friend who was interested in BattleLore (Second Edition). He didn't like the fiddliness of Battles of Westeros so I am not sure Battlelore is going to be much different, seeing both are based on Borg's C&C. I am also questioning whether there is not a better system than playing cards that allow you to activate right, center and left flanks.

My question is, is C&C the best ancients/medieval/fantasy larger-scale tactical battle ruleset currently in print?

Is there another ruleset that is superior to C&C?


Battles of Westeros is by far the most "fiddly" in the C&C family of games. BattleLore (Second Edition) is easier to play and lighter in game play than BoW. BoW eliminates the left/center/right structure, but it does so at the cost of added complexity and a higher fiddle factor.

Battlelore Second Edition is light. Games should play in 30 minutes. So, a string of bad dice or bad cards are more easily ignored. You can just play again. If you're looking for light, this can satisfy that.
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Mike Cumings
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I'd recommend looking at Rally Round the King. It is a minis ruleset, but the investment of time and space might be less than you think. It lends itself to fantasy campaigns, though it works for historical gaming without the fantasy cruft.

I mention it because when you asked for something less fiddly with a different approach, my mind immediately leapt to Two Hour Wargames's reaction system. It's not for everyone, but it rocked my world when I tried it a few months ago. RRtK is the fantasy/ancients implementation of it; I haven't tried it specifically, though as you can tell I've done a bit of reading on it
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