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Subject: Anyone tried a 7p game yet? rss

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MacDouglass Kinnick
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In the BGG description, it says that this game should take app. 3.5 hr. w/ 7p.

Has anyone tried a 7p game?

My copy is coming soon, and I'm wondering how feasible it would be to put it on the table w/ 7 new players and actually get through it in an evening...
 
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Clyde W
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It seems like an utterly awful idea, but that is only my theory. A 5p game was bad enough. Definitely best with 3-4p.
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Salim Khoury
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MacDouglass wrote:
In the BGG description, it says that this game should take app. 3.5 hr. w/ 7p.

Has anyone tried a 7p game?

My copy is coming soon, and I'm wondering how feasible it would be to put it on the table w/ 7 new players and actually get through it in an evening...


I don't believe in 7p games, why put people through that? Play two games of 3 & 4 instead.
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Bryan Thunkd
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I tired it with six and it took a loooong time. And this was with people who knew Agricola. I'd recommend not doing seven.
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Mathue Faulkner
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A session report:
http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/164832/item/2915189#item29...

And some discussion:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1077789/1-to-7-players-and-3...
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Josh
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My friend played a 6P game at BGG.con. Granted, it was the first game for everyone at the table.

I'll put it to you this way. He started before I'd managed to recruit players for Dominant Species. I taught the rules to one newb, and we played a 5P game. When I was finished my friend was still playing Caverna.

It went six hours.

But actually I'd like to play 7P Caverna just once so I can say I did it.
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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Salimo wrote:
MacDouglass wrote:
In the BGG description, it says that this game should take app. 3.5 hr. w/ 7p.

Has anyone tried a 7p game?

My copy is coming soon, and I'm wondering how feasible it would be to put it on the table w/ 7 new players and actually get through it in an evening...


I don't believe in 7p games, why put people through that? Play two games of 3 & 4 instead.


7 Wonders and Dixit are good with 7!
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Salim Khoury
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I understand and agree, there are always exceptions. Especially party games and the likes of The Resistance: Avalon etc. Caverna...not an exception, even if it's been play-tested, its too much for most people for all the obvious reasons.
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To answer the question in the topic title: "Anyone tried a 7p game yet?"

Yes, it works perfectly well.

Unsurprisingly, it was playtested.

Lo! and behold! - it works, too. With 7p.

YMMV - until you've actually got a copy and tried it with willing participants, some of whom understand either a) worker placement or b) Agricola or better c)with one of whom has played Caverna at least one in reality, not in their heads - then your mileage will probably tend towards the mean.
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Donny Behne
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I have, enjoyed it. Just be prepared to space out a bit between turns. Its not awful. Decide your course of action, decide on a back up and, when its your turn, execute. And play with non-learners. It speeds up substantially. Sometimes I think people who complain about 6+ player games are purely playing with one or more new players - of course its going to take forever!
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Tobias Kriener
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I've played it several times with 7 players, and it works perfectly well.
You have to be ready to spent some hours with this game - but why not? I like to spend as much time as possible gaming; so why be bothered by a long game? The longer the game takes, the longer the fun lasts! I really don't understand people bothering about long games ...

With players getting more accustoomed to the mechanics you need less time. With 7 experienced players who don't suffer PA it won't take much longer than 3 hours.

But if you don't want to spend more than half an hour with a single game (like with 7 Wonders) Caverna is not the right game for you. Keep your hands off it!
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Definitely need the right crowd. Non-gamers will not last more than a few hours at most. Finding the time can also be hard with other commitments. Some argue it's more fun to fit in a couple of games, but I guess that's up to personal preference.
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Donny Behne
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toker wrote:
I've played it several times with 7 players, and it works perfectly well.
You have to be ready to spent some hours with this game - but why not? I like to spend as much time as possible gaming; so why be bothered by a long game? The longer the game takes, the longer the fun lasts! I really don't understand people bothering about long games ...

With players getting more accustoomed to the mechanics you need less time. With 7 experienced players who don't suffer PA it won't take much longer than 3 hours.

But if you don't want to spend more than half an hour with a single game (like with 7 Wonders) Caverna is not the right game for you. Keep your hands off it!


There's two kinds of "long games". There's long games in which there's only a few minutes between turns and turns are meaningful. These are great. I get a lot out of the time spent, despite spending four+ hours at the table. A long game in which my turns are 20+ minutes apart, no thank you. I'd rather spend 4 hours playing several fun games than playing one less than pleasant game.

Just saying "the longer the game, the more the fun" doesn't apply when the gameplay itself is not fun.
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Clyde W
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A game that features simultaneous action--think Diplomacy, but there are many others--that lasts 4 hours is fine. A game where it takes minutes of waiting for your turn come back around, that is mostly awful and the definition of anti-fun. Especially when you're praying that no one takes the spot you really need.
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Bryan Thunkd
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toker wrote:
But if you don't want to spend more than half an hour with a single game (like with 7 Wonders) Caverna is not the right game for you.
I'm quite willing, eager even, to spend hours with Caverna. I'd just rather that the time I spend with is it time I'm actively engaged with the game, not downtime where I'm only waiting for it to get back to my turn. That's why I'd rather play with fewer players.

There's a huge middle ground between not wanting to spend thirty minutes on a game and the lengthy ordeal of a seven player Caverna game.
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MacDouglass Kinnick
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kelann08 wrote:


There's two kinds of "long games". There's long games in which there's only a few minutes between turns and turns are meaningful. These are great. I get a lot out of the time spent, despite spending four+ hours at the table. A long game in which my turns are 20+ minutes apart, no thank you. I'd rather spend 4 hours playing several fun games than playing one less than pleasant game.

Just saying "the longer the game, the more the fun" doesn't apply when the gameplay itself is not fun.


Totally agree.

Great assessment on the difference between an enjoyable 7p experience and a painful 7p experience.
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MacDouglass Kinnick
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JoshBot wrote:
My friend played a 6P game at BGG.con. Granted, it was the first game for everyone at the table.

I'll put it to you this way. He started before I'd managed to recruit players for Dominant Species. I taught the rules to one newb, and we played a 5P game. When I was finished my friend was still playing Caverna.

It went six hours.

But actually I'd like to play 7P Caverna just once so I can say I did it.


For some reason, your post gives me the best mental picture of what to expect.

I second you: I also want to try it out at least once just to say I did it. I have a group of friends who I've gamed w/ for years, and we'll probably end up tackling the challenge @ some point, but, more often than not, I play games w/ the wife, which means that most of my experiences are 2p experiences.
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Bryan Thunkd
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MacDouglass wrote:
I also want to try it out at least once just to say I did it.
Maybe not for your first play though? Get the rules down yourself, see how long it takes with a lower count, and then you can make an informed decision.
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Ken Stuart
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Our 7p group tried Caverna last night for the first time, from scratch, none of us having played it before. We had all played Agricola at least once, so the basic concepts were known although rusty to some. (We bravely ignored the advice about trying 5p first, and we went straight to the full set of cavern expansions.)

Yes, it took our whole evening (including rules learning and various interruptions to deal with kids), but by the end of it the turns were rolling quickly, and after scoring we all agreed we wanted to have another go at it. No doubt that will play much faster.

Summary: a thoroughly enjoyable 7p game and recommended. The fact that none of us had played it before meant no one had a particular edge and most of us tried different strategies. Point spread was 44, 53, 55, 59, 71, 72, 75 -- and everyone learned from mistakes.

There was not much downtime between turns, the worst being late-game expeditions when players have more-significant choices for their rewards. But the rules explicitly suggest not waiting for people to choose their rewards before the next player goes, and we encouraged such. (There can be problems there, however, if a player chooses to furnish a cavern and has not beforehand decided which tile to buy, thus may keep the next like-minded player waiting).

We are very happy to have Caverna as an alternative to 7 Wonders or Citadels because we often have seven people at the table, and we tend to prefer to have everyone in one game rather than split into two games, although we do that sometimes.

-Ken

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Jenny Sayward
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I've been teaching this game to a variety of new players in a variety of settings. My goal is to make the first experience as pleasant as possible for all, and encourage their eagerness to delve in again.

My attempt at a 7-player game of mixed-ability adults was a disaster. I thought the experience had turned them all against the game. After 3 hours (8 rounds) we quit, but some of the players were ready to try again the next week.

At a convention, I taught a father & his two daughters, including a 7-year-old. This 4-player game lasted 7 hours! It was excruciating to wait so much between turns, but wonderful to see them willing to spend so much time engaged in strategic thinking. They maintained their interest throughout the game!

Here's an idea for introducing a bunch of people to the game: Pair them up, and create a 4-player game. This way they will have someone to discuss decisions with between turns. You are solo, or even out of the game but managing. You can walk around as the turns progress and give advice before their turn comes up. The introductory game can be shortened to 9 rounds without losing much of the fun.

I also devised a quick-start learning game that I posted on the forum. Skilled players scoffed at the idea of simplifying the game so much, but for a first-time experience of this game, I think it enables new players to see features of the game that they may not discover on their own right away.
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Bryan Thunkd
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gameteacher wrote:
Here's an idea for introducing a bunch of people to the game: Pair them up
Ugh.. Kill me now.
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Zeb
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MacDouglass wrote:
In the BGG description, it says that this game should take app. 3.5 hr. w/ 7p.

Has anyone tried a 7p game?

My copy is coming soon, and I'm wondering how feasible it would be to put it on the table w/ 7 new players and actually get through it in an evening...


Is it feasible? Yes. Should you play a 7-player game of Caverna without having ever played it before and having to teach new players? OHGODNOMAKEITSTOP.
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Kevin Tierney
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We played two games w/ 7 players over the New Year's holiday. 3 people were new to Caverna (and Agricola) so we let them play a 3-player game first with my daughter doing all the restocking chores and providing coaching tips.

Both 7-player games went great. Everyone playing was family, but we are a pretty competitive bunch. The first game was almost 4 hours and the second was just a little over 3. Time between turns varied but in general I think it moved along at an acceptable pace. What was great was seeing the different boards develop based on everyone's different approaches.

I'm not sure you should buy Caverna because of the 7 player limit, but it is a nice option to have if everyone wants to play a longer eurogame. We have played over 50 games of 7 Wonders with the same group so something different was great for us. The game time was actually a little faster than some of the 6 player Starfarers of Catan games we have played.
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Emivaldo Sousa
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7 player is an insane proposition for this kind of game;

It is possible, but with five players you are already taking a risk to wait way too long for your turn.

With 3-4 players the experience is enjoyable and rather quick, if people know what they are doing.

Unless Caverna is the only game available, I advise you to do this: split the group in two, one plays Caverna and the other another game. Then switch. In roughly the same amount of time you will have played two games and everyone will have played Caverna.
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MacDouglass Kinnick
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kps1ny wrote:
Our 7p group tried Caverna last night for the first time, from scratch, none of us having played it before. We had all played Agricola at least once, so the basic concepts were known although rusty to some. (We bravely ignored the advice about trying 5p first, and we went straight to the full set of cavern expansions.)

Yes, it took our whole evening (including rules learning and various interruptions to deal with kids), but by the end of it the turns were rolling quickly, and after scoring we all agreed we wanted to have another go at it. No doubt that will play much faster.

Summary: a thoroughly enjoyable 7p game and recommended. The fact that none of us had played it before meant no one had a particular edge and most of us tried different strategies. Point spread was 44, 53, 55, 59, 71, 72, 75 -- and everyone learned from mistakes.

There was not much downtime between turns, the worst being late-game expeditions when players have more-significant choices for their rewards. But the rules explicitly suggest not waiting for people to choose their rewards before the next player goes, and we encouraged such. (There can be problems there, however, if a player chooses to furnish a cavern and has not beforehand decided which tile to buy, thus may keep the next like-minded player waiting).

We are very happy to have Caverna as an alternative to 7 Wonders or Citadels because we often have seven people at the table, and we tend to prefer to have everyone in one game rather than split into two games, although we do that sometimes.

-Ken


You've encouraged me to give it a try!

My group would be a bunch of pretty seasoned board gamers, all fairly familiar w/ the concepts of Agricola. If they're willing, I'd be willing. And, I'll have had a number of 2p games under my belt before I take a swing @ a 7p session.
 
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